Heineken Cup 2013/14

[the plastic paddy]

From Munsterrugby.ie:

The Munster squad to face Edinburgh in the first round of the Heineken Cup has been named today with the most notable absentee being Captain Peter O'Mahony.


Peter has been integrated back in to training this week following on from his half-time replacement against Leinster last Saturday. All protocol re return to play has been followed and Peter has progressed normally in this regard. However, due to the heavy schedule in the upcoming weeks, including Rabo, Heineken and possible International involvement, a decision to omit Peter from this weekend’s opening round Heineken Cup game against Edinburgh has been made.
Paul O’Connell will captain the side when they run out in Murrayfield at 1.35pm on Saturday.

With O’Mahony ruled out there is one change to the pack that defeated Leinster last weekend with Paddy Butler coming into the squad and making his first Heineken Cup start this Saturday, as he joins Niall Ronan and James Coughlan in the back-row.

There is one change to the back-line also with Conor Murray moving into the starting XV with Duncan Williams named in the replacements.

Munster: Felix Jones; Keith Earls, Casey Laulala, James Downey, Simon Zebo; Ian Keatley, Conor Murray; Dave Kilcoyne, Mike Sherry, Stephen Archer; Donncha Ryan, Paul O’Connell Capt.; Paddy Butler, Niall Ronan, James Coughlan.

Replacements: Damien Varley, James Cronin, BJ Botha, Donncha O’Callaghan, CJ Stander, Duncan Williams, JJ Hanrahan, Denis Hurley.
_ _ _ _ _

Personally I am pleased that they are not taking a chance with POM, I would like to see mandatory 10 day stand downs for any loss of consciousness. Stephen Archer's push for the Ireland 3 jersey is gathering momentum, with Fitzpatrick stringing some games together up North as well it is starting to look a bit better in the Irish tight head prop department. Nathan White qualifies next year as well.

 

[JSRF10]

Finally a team showing some common sense with potential brain injuries! Always nice to see an Irish tighthead prop start in the Heineken Cup, God knows we need some quality cover there

 

[JSRF10]

Brendan Macken is making his Heineken Cup debut at 13 on Saturday, really looking forward to seeing how he goes I'm a massive fan and have high hopes for him. The squad has yet to be confirmed but Heaslip let it slip in the press conference yesterday:

“For some guys this is a massive opportunity,” said the number eight. “Like, I was talking to Brendan, it’s his first start in the Heineken Cup and he can’t wait.”

http://thescore.thejournal.ie/brian-odriscoll-ospreys-1122806-Oct2013/

BOD is a huge loss, as is Cullen but I think we might be able to scrap through this one. At the very very least a losing bonus point is key. I can see us sneaking through this group but with an away quarter final

The teams for the first blockbuster have been announced:


Ulster: J Payne; A Trimble, D Cave, L Marshall, T Bowe; P Jackson, P Marshall; T Court, R Best, D Fitzpatrick; J Muller (captain), D Tuohy; R Wilson, C Henry, N Williams. Replacements: R Herring, C Black, R Lutton, I Henderson, R Diack, R Pienaar, S Olding, M Allen.
Leicester Tigers: N Morris; M Benjamin, V Goneva, D Bowden, AThompstone; Toby Flood (capt), B Youngs; L Mulipola, T Youngs, D Cole; L Deacon, G Parling; E Slater, J Salvi, J Crane. Replacements: N Briggs, B Stankovich, F Balmain, G Kitchener, T Waldrom, D Mele, O Williams, T Hepetema.

Ulsters bench gives them a massive edge for me, I can't see them winning with a bonus point like they did 18 months ago but I can see them denying Leicester one. Lutton, Henderson, Diack, Piennaar and Olding are great talents to have come on around the 50 minute mark.

 

[boyo]

Leicester are good players Ulster will have to do well to win with or without a bonus point and deny them a bonus point.

 

[JSRF10]

Leicester are good players Ulster will have to do well to win with or without a bonus point and deny them a bonus point.

I agree that it will be a tough game for Ulster, but I think home advantage and more impact from their should see them home and if they finish strongly I can see them getting more than 7 ahead of the Tigers.

The performances of Small Paul and Ben Youngs will be interesting both are known for collapsing under pressure from opposition back rows so both sides will be targeting the opposition 9s.

 

[aeneas]

For a cup newbie like myself who are the teams to watch?

 

[Bairdy]

The Heineken Cup starts this weekend?! It's creeped up on us so fast!

 

[JSRF10]

For a cup newbie like myself who are the teams to watch?

Main challengers by country IMO:

France: Clermont, Toulon, Toulouse

These are the 3 teams that usually present Frances best challenge, Toulouse hold the record for the most tournament wins but have slipped to some pretty embarrassing losses in the past couple of seasons. Their coach Guy Noves is one of the few French coaches who publicly talks about prioritising Europe. Clermont are the perennial bridesmaids of the Heineken Cup, from 2008 to 2012 they were knocked out by either Leinster or Munster and when the finally managed to beat an Irish side in Ireland they stumbled at the final hurdle in a spectacular choke. This year is make or break for them. Toulon are the reigning champions and with the amount of international stars in their team it is no surprise that they can challenge on 2 fronts. If St Jonny of Red Rose stays fit they will be in the latter stages however they have openly declared that the Top 14 is their main aim this year after they lost in last years finals so how they approach April/May in terms of rotation will be interesting

Ireland:

Ulster, Leinster, Munster

No shock to see these 3 teams in with a shout, Ulster are probably the strongest as the two traditional heavyweights are in different stages of transition. Ulster are back boned by some top quality SH talent (Afoa, Muller, Pieenar, Payne) and some of the most exciting Irish talent around (Marshall, Bowe, Olding, Henderson, Best). This is a make or break year for them as they've lost in finals the last 2 years. Leinster are under new management (Aussie Matt O'Connor) and have been in patchy form this year. They are starting the tournament without their 3 main leaders Cullen, Jennings, BOD and look to be struggling with the departure of their two best backs over the off season (Sexton, Nacewa). Munster look to be coming out of their transition with some really exciting youngsters cementing their place in the team, they've got a strong pack, one of the top 9's in Europe and an electric back 3. Numbers 10 to 13 could be their weak point, not convinced Keatley, Downey, LuaLua is a cup winning combination. Watch out for JJ Hanrahan who is an ex IRB U-20 POTY candidate, he is on the bench this weekend but should see plenty of gametime. Munsters progression depends on POC and Conor Murray staying fit.

England

Saracens, Northampton, Leicester

Saracens are the club everyone loves to hate, I'd go into detail why but I don't have all day and it would just ruin my Friday feeling. They got an abrasive pack, direct backs and good depth. Remain to be convinced that they can mix it with the big boys in attack but they have landed the golden ticket of having Zebre and Connaught in their group so should progress. Northampton are the side that seem to get hyped up every year but end up crashing and burning. They have recruited well in the off season (Cordiserio, North, Foutall'i) but lack the all round quality in the pack and a decent 10 that Heineken Cup winners process. Leicester have a stinker of a group and I've only really included them as contenders due to their history. Their backline looks callow without Manu Tuilagi, and their half back combination have folded under pressure too many times in this competition. Still they've got a fabulous record in the competition and could surprise me by progressing to the knockout stages.

Wales

Ospreys

The Welsh don't have a great record in the Heineken Cup and there has been the suspicion in recent times that their top players have been holding themselves back for national duty. Still the Ospreys are the best of the Welsh and are always a tough team to play against. They have a mean pack spined by Adam Jones, Alun-Wyn Jones and Justin Tipuric. Their backline looks a but toothless at the highest level and as much as they will give teams a lot of problems I don't think they have enough talent to win, also an injury to Adam Jones means they are toast.

There are a couple of other teams who could make an impression (Racing Metro, Montpellier, Glasgow, Treviso) but I'd be fairly safe in saying that the winner will come from the 10 teams I've mentioned above.

 

[aeneas]

Wow thanks for the reply

 

[boyo]

Saracens = London South Africans.

 

[the plastic paddy]

This is a fascinating weekend of Heineken cup rugby with all the political shenanagins going on and the competition itself offering up some absolute lip smackers!!!!

Here is a list of the weekends fixtures, all Irish time,

Friday
Connacht v Saracens, 20:00
Toulouse v Zebre, 20:00
Ulster v Leicester, 20:00


Saturday
Castres v Northampton, 15:40
Ospreys v Leinster, 18:00
Harlequins v Scarlets, 15:40
Treviso v Montpellier, 13:35
Edinburgh v Munster, 13:35
Gloucester v Perpignan, 18:00

Sunday
Exeter v Cardiff Blues, 12:45
Toulon v Glasgow, 15:00
Racing Metro v Clermont Auvergne, 20:00

Aside from Toulouse V Zebre, all those games should be competitive; how I would love to see Connacht cause the mother of all upsets and beat the (dreadful) Saracens in Galway tonight, now that really would piss in Nigel Wray's fecking pizza.

 

[boyo]

Munster should beat Edinburgh.

 

[the plastic paddy]

Munster should beat Edinburgh.

I would certainly hope so, with a BP if we have serious title aspirations which I think we should have, however I don't want to tempt fate and we are notoriously piss poor playing early in the day.

 

[Bardon]

It's great to see such enthusiasm for this years HEC on here, even if it's mostly from us NH guys.

Looking at the pools on paper I'd expect the 8 qualifiers to be:

Toulouse, Saracens, Clermont, Leicester, Munster, Leinster, Toulon, Ulster

In reality there are always a few surprises and teams normally fancy their chances of nicking a spot. Given Pool 3s make up of Toulouse, Saracens, Connacht & Zebre it might be harder than normal.

Most would expect both Toulouse & Saracens to secure enough points to put then through and that one of the two would be ranked 1 for the QF. So I expect a lot of 2nd placed teams will be cheering for Connacht to make the pool less of a walkover.

Looking at the teams who would think they have a genuine shot at the QF but not among the favourites:

Pool 1 Castres, Leinster, Northampton, Ospreys

A lot depends on Leinster's form under new coach Matt O'Connor. It's a tough group but Leinster on top form are capable of beating the rest of the pool home and away. If they don't produce that then this one is a real dog fight.

Every team in this pool will fancy their chances to progress:

Leinster will be expected to win the pool but this isn't the same Leinster that have dominated the competition in recent years. There's a lot of rebuilding but they'll be busting a gut to get to the knockout stages and hope the work is far enough progress by then to give it a go in the knock-out stages.

Northampton often play their best rugby in the pool stages before falling apart somewhere in the knock-out stages.

Ospreys are a team of stars without necessarily being a star team. For years they've fallen short of their potential in the HEC.

Castres will be interesting. They'll definitely be up for it in the first couple of rounds and will cause problems to Northampton and Leinster in rounds 1 & 2. But like a lot of French teams they may prioritise the top 14 and send 2nd teams on their travels. This might be a big boost to Ospreys who play them home and away in rounds 3 & 4.

This is definitely a pool where a good start is key. With there being so much quality in the pool I wouldn't expect the winners to be in for a home quarter finals.

Pool 2 Cardiff, Exeter, Glasgow, Toulon

At first glance this pool is Toulon's for the taking. The other 3 are closely matched and will fancy their chances against each other. This will make life hard for any of the 3 to keep pace with Toulon.

Realistically to stand a chance of pipping Toulon to top spot someone will have to take 5-6 points from their 2 games against them and hope they can get enough points from their other games.

It seems like a big ask, but it's one of the reasons I love the HEC. This weekends results could blow this pool wide open if Cardiff beat Toulon at the Arms Park.

Cardiff need a strong start against Toulon or they might be dead on arrival in this pool. It's been a long time since a Welsh team have had a strong campaign in the HEC and I'd love to see Cardiff deliver this year.

Toulon are the defending champions and will be expected to navigate what looks like a tricky pool. They'll quickly discover that as champions their a big red target at their backs and everyone in this pool will have a real go at them.

Exeter have produced some memorable performances in recent years but may find it difficult to sustain it across all of their pool games.

Glasgow are top of the Pro12 going into this first round of games and really should do better in the HEC. They struggle to compete on 2 fronts and may prioritise the Pro12 if they don't get a good start. For me they're the most likely to cause Toulon problems but their big problem is dropping points at home and making things more difficult for themselves.

Pool 3 Connacht, Saracens, Toulouse, Zebre

I think everyone expects this pool to produce 2 qualifies with Sarries and Toulouse duking it out for a home QF.

Sarries have a very strong, forward dominated, squad. With Toulouse being off form in the HEC in recent season Sarries would be expected to take at top spot and no. 1 ranking for the QF. However in the QF they could be the 1 in 4 that generally lose their home QF.

Toulouse are the Kings of Europe with more HEC wins than any other club. However their crown has looked a little tarnished lately. This pool might be just what they need. Once in the QF they will be a difficult opponent for anyone to face.

Connacht should cause some problems for both Sarries and Toulouse and may determine which of the two wins the pool. I don't think anyone realistically gives them a chance of making the QF but they're not a guaranteed win especially at the sports ground.

Zebre are without doubt the worst team in this years HEC. They only recent won their first every game after 2 years in existence as the replacement for Aironi. In terms of the big two in the pool failing to get the bonus point win against Zebre might be a deciding factor. Zebre have heart and I'd love nothing better than to see them put one over on the 2 big boys in the group but I can't see it happen. That want stop me jumping around shouting like a lunatic if they actually do manage it.

Pool 4 Clermont, Harlequins, Racing, Scarlets

As last years beaten finalists Clermont would be expected to take this pool. But there are no soft touches in this one and as in other tight pools that makes the first 2 rounds extremely important.

Clermont should have won last years final and were the most impressive team until their final display. But they haven't be handed an easy pool this time around. If they give Quins any sniff of a hope from the first game they could be in trouble.

Harlequins aren't the team that won the Premiership a couple of years ago. They've had a torrid time in the HEC recently suffering some embarrassing defeats. It's about time an English team that plays such nice flowing rugby had a run in Europe. But to progress from this pool they're also going to have to tough it out. There will be games where they'll be relying on their pack to produce a miracle and keep them hanging in there. If they can do that they may upset the apple cart.

Racing have recruiting heavily, including bringing in flyhalf Jonny Sexton from Leinster. They have the squad to really give it a go in this pool. But unlike Clermont I'm not convinced that Europe is a priority for them just yet. I think they might put out a few weakened teams when they have their focus on the Top14 in later rounds.

Scarlets have maybe an easier ride than the other 2 Welsh teams this year. They're in a pool that no one expects them to qualify from and one or two big results will see them happy with their HEC campaign this year.

Pool 5 Treviso, Leicester, Montpellier, Ulster

Many will expect English champions Leicester to take the pool but Ulster certainly won't step aside and let them have a procession to the QF. With both Treviso and Montpellier making up the pool there are reasonable expectation that this will be the other pool that produces 2 QF spots.

Treviso are not the walk over they once were. They're the reason that team no longer think of an Italian team in your pool being a guaranteed 8-10 points. Expect them to cause a few upsets but they're still a few years away from making a genuine push for the QF themselves.

Leicester are champion of England and the most successful English club both domestically and on the European front. However it's been a long time since they've been genuine contenders. If they navigate this pool and get a home QF then memories of past exploits will make them dangerous to anyone in the competition.

Montpellier have a lot to do to prove there are more than just filler. For Leicester and Ulster it make be about avoiding slip up against Treviso and lucking out with Montpellier fielding a weakened team once they've lost interest. They're a team with a lot to prove but I don't get the impression they care to much to set the record straight just yet. Hopefully I'm proved wrong. When they try they'll give anyone in the pool a game.

Ulster are beaten finalist from a couple of seasons back. They're probably in the strongest position of the Irish provinces at present. But they've shown in recent years that they seem to have a mental block on the big occasions. If they can overcome that they could delivery a 2nd HEC victory after 15 years. Ulster really have come on in the past few years but it's getting to the point where they need to be winning silverware.

Pool 6 Edinburgh, Gloucester, Munster, Perpignan

At first glance one team stands out as a true European giant in this pool, Munster. Many will expect them to win this pool and for that reason everyone else in the pool will want to prove them wrong. This could be a pool that produces a surprise quarter-finalist.

Unlike Glasgow, Edinburgh tend to save their best rugby for the HEC. They're currently bottom of the Pro12 but I'd expect them to have a real go at Perpignan away this weekend.

Gloucester are an example of how the quality in the Premiership drops off significantly outside the top 3-4 clubs. Of the 3 leagues that make up the HEC the Premiership is undoubtedly the weakest. That's not helped by having a 2nd round tie with Munster at their fortress Thomond Park. Gloucester may prove a tricky fixture when at home and if they can accumulate enough point on the road could sneak into the QF if Munster's recent trend of inconsistent European performances continues.

I feel that this Munster squad comes into this years competition with a point to prove. They're still a big name in Europe but they've been overshadowed by Leinster in recent years and they've had their own struggles while they rebuild. They're are a number of quality young players coming through at Munster and you get the sense that something in happening their akin to days of old when they had their great Europeans adventures. I expect Munster to be strong in this pool and the knockout stages.

Perpignan are another French team that aren't overly concerned with their European exploits. Like with others it's a bit of a chicken and egg scenario. If they ever had a strong run in Europe (making the QF) I'm sure enthusiasm for Europe would sky rocket among their fans and players. But for that to happen they first have to be enthusiastic about the competition.

As with many years this year's HEC is stuff with quality sides and the prospect of some amazing clashes as Europe's heavy weight collide. But a closer look reveals that their is another layer of quality sides that yearn to join that exclusive club.

Come the Quarter-Final there will be teams that none of us expected to make it and some of the favourites may well be eliminated in the pool stages. That unpredictability is what I love about the HEC and as always I expect to enjoying every minute of it. Can't wait for tonight's games to start.

 

[boyo]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/24485843

 

[boyo]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/24482338

Sabre rattling?

 

[JSRF10]

Good win for Ulster overnight but I've heard that they were camped in the Leicester 22 for long periods but their attack looked predictabel and handling let them down on occasions, giving away a bonus point puts the pressure on them next week.

On a side note, Paddy Jackson finally kicked well in a high pressure game.

 

[Bardon]

Ulster did well to come out with the win. Bowe was rusty and his handling did blow a few chances for Ulster. Still in the first half Leicester were dominant in the scrum and were more physical than Ulster, but Ulster managed to go in leading.

In the 2nd half Ulster reversed the situation at the scrum, improved their work at the breakdown and were a lot more physical. They'll be unhappy that they let Leicester back within bonus point range. But overall neither team will be too unhappy with their nights work.

Ulster got a win and it's a positive start to the pool for them. Leicester were good value for their bonus point and they'll be happy that they left with something unlike last time the visited Raven Hill. Ulster will be looking to get at least a bonus point in the return fixture.

In the other game Sarries were lucky to get out of the sports ground with a win over Connacht. Sarries started well with a couple of tries, but Connacht fought back to 17-17 before Sarries clinched a narrow win with a couple of penalties in the 2nd half.

Connacht again showed that they are an improving side, but they've still a ways to go before they're anything other than a tough away trip in the HEC pool. Sarries have gotten out of town with their win and they'll be hoping that Toulouse aren't as lucky when they visit the sports ground.

 

[the plastic paddy]

Good win for Ulster overnight but I've heard that they were camped in the Leicester 22 for long periods but their attack looked predictabel and handling let them down on occasions, giving away a bonus point puts the pressure on them next week.

On a side note, Paddy Jackson finally kicked well in a high pressure game.

Paddy Jackson played very well all around. Poite inevitably had his usual pernicious influence on proceedings, jebus but he is some c''t. Sounds like the Weshties were unlucky. Getting properly wound up for Munster's Edinburgh game, Gwan Munster. Best of luck to Leinster, I am a great believer in poor dress rehearsal, good performance and I suspect the blue magoos will do a job on the Ospreys. I also really fancy the Scarlets to beat Harlequins, UP the RABO!!!!!!

 

[Bardon]

Good win by Leinster away to Ospreys. Munster have a lot of work to do, having lost to Edinburgh.

But the performance of the day has to go to Scarlets for their win against Harlequins. Very entertaining game, both teams played some great rugby. But Harlequins defence will need a lot of improvement if they're to recover in the pool.

Gloucester did well to recover and win against Perpignan. Haven't seen the red card incident in that one yet.

Northampton managed to get a losing bonus point against Castres and Montpellier won away to Treviso.

Still a long way to go but most of the pools look like they're going to be pretty close.