How to fix the wallabies

[RedsHappy]

Jesus this thread isn't called the "bitch and moan about the problems in the wallabies and ARU" it's called "how to fix the wallabies" (and ARU). QH and Gnostic (and TWAS, half among others) you aresaying what the problems are (which is correct, you've got to know what the problem is to solve it), but you DON'T PROPOSE ANY SOLUTIONS.

RUBBISH ........sorry torp as your heart is in the right place and you're a fresh and honest thinker, I see that via your comments and posts. Over many years here torp I have proposed many solutions, indeed many at virtually every level of the code.

Not that it matters - the only one of mine by sheer co-incidence that the ARU has very recently adopted (but on a 'too little, too late' basis) is the recruitment of M Byrne as National Skills Coach. That is something, but far more radical changes are needed.

More recently I have advanced the hypothesis that there is little true value in proposing 2016-dated solutions as clearly they will not occur under current ARU/State RU leadership patterns, cultures and persons.

Rather let's just wait for the forthcoming ARU/RU super-crisis in c.2018-2020 when it is likely that entire degraded institutional status quo will be purged and soon after benevolently rejuvenated via an entirely new governance format and way better boards and leaders.

 

[Quick Hands]

Jesus this thread isn't called the "bitch and moan about the problems in the wallabies and ARU" it's called "how to fix the wallabies" (and ARU). QH and Gnostic (and TWAS, half among others) you aresaying what the problems are (which is correct, you've got to know what the problem is to solve it), but you DON'T PROPOSE ANY SOLUTIONS.

The thing is torpedo, that there's no simple fix. If there was, even the ARU might have been able to come up with it.

You want to fix the Wallabies, then allow 10-15 years for it to happen on a meaningful basis.

At the moment the root of the problem is there aren't enough young kids playing the game and there haven't been for at least 10 years. It's just that the time lag between decline of base and decline of Wallabies has meant that it's taken this long for many to realise that there is even a problem to fix.

Solutions:

(Predicated on the basis that anyone has enough money to implement these - which the ARU clearly don't).

Increase junior participation in club based competitions (as opposed to school based competitions). This would require the ARU to provide DOs to traditional rugby areas AND significant community support in setting up junior clubs in non-trditional rugby areas and DOs to those areas.

In Sydney - return club juniors to a Saturday competition based on north, south and west zones instead of a Sydney wide competition. Hockey is infinitly smaller - but can manage this structure. (Although junior club hockey is expanding at about the same rate that junior club rugby is contracting)

Provide coaching and organisational support to state schools to enable schools to play 15 a side Wednesday (secondary) and Friday (primary) competitions. Both of which existed in the past but have disappeared - even in traditional rugby areas.

Put a logical structure in place from 6s to Wallabies with each level having a relationship with the level above and below. At the moment we have things such as JGC and NRC which sit outside other structures. (Not saying who is right - just that it needs to be fixed.) Junior village to district club to NRC club to super club to Wallabies. As a part of this rationalise the number of different junior representative pathways (many of which overlap and/or have the same kids playing multiple levels).

The education of coaches is clearly a problem - as it stands we have a dearth of coaching talent. Encourage innovation and difference instead of white bread sameness. The skill level of our elite players is well short of what is should be - we have players who have been in elite junior programmes since their mid teens - many can't pass both sides, can't kick to save their lives and have limited tactical nous beyond "run it".

That's probably enough suggested solutions to be going on with, but it aint going to happen by Saturday night in Wellington. It's a long, tough road ahead and I'm not sure that those charged with running the game (a) appreciate the extent of the problem and (b) have sufficient understanding of how the game functions outside of a narrow social clique to do so.

EDIT: I'll now affix the crash helmet for the incoming from the ARU apologists on these threads.

 

[The torpedo]

EDIT: I'll now affix the crash helmet for the incoming from the ARU apologists on these threads.

They exist?

 

[wamberal]

They exist?

Yes, I am quite happy to defend the ARU, probably because I have had the experience of working for more than a dozen years for a very successful sporting organisation (not in Rugby, and not in Australia).


The simple fact is that money matters a lot. If the ARU had access to enough money to fix things, but didn"t, then they would deserve the sort of condemnation that abounds on this and other forums.

But they don't. Not only that, they only have limited control over the important factors that determine how popular the game is here. The rule book, for one. The fact that some of our best players can be induced to leave these shores without any recompense to the ARU or State Unions who have the responsibility to spend scarce money to deveop them in the first place.


The organisation I worked for was enormously successful in financial terms, we still had big management challenges, but we had the resources to handle the challenges. Unlike the ARU.

 

[The torpedo]

I reckon that the first priority to fixing the mess is to find some investors, like CVC.
We then find a new CEO that isn't a member of the boys club (see the reds)
After this pretty much everything you said except school rugby - I don't agree with having secondary schools play on a wednesday, because academic commitments and playing rugby would be very hard to do. Instead, I would propose this:

Club:
Under 6's - 8:30am Saturday
Under 7's - 9:30am Saturday
Under 8's - 10:30am Saturday
Under 9's - 11:30am Saturday
Under 10's - 8:30am Sunday
Under 11's - 9:30am Sunday
Under 12's - 10:30am Sunday
Under 13's - 11:30am Sunday
Under 14's - 12:30pm Sunday
Under 15's - 1:30pm Sunday
Under 16's - 2:30pm Sunday
Under 17's - 3:30pm Sunday
Colts (U19's) - 12:30pm Saturday
Reserves - 2:15pm Saturday
Seniors - 4:00pm Saturday

School (secondary):
Grade 7 - 8:30am Saturday
Grade 8 - 9:30am Saturday
Grade 9 - 10:30am Saturday
Grade 10 - 12:00pm Saturday
Grade 11 - 1:30pm Saturday
Grade 12 - 3:00pm Saturday

 

[Quick Hands]

They exist?

They do. They've kept their heads down since Saturday, but I'm sure that they will return.

(Wamberal isn't one of them btw - his opinons are balanced and give criticism and credit where they are due.)

 

[Train Without a Station]

Torpedo it's more so people who have realistic expectations.

But the majority on this forum do. It's just people like old mate a few pages back that don't. But there is a general opinion from those outside that the ARU is a bunch of rich fat cats just setting around on company dime taking everything they can out of the game.

The fact is the ARU pays less and has less. Pulver for example is the lowest paid CEO of any regularly nationally televised sport in Australia it seems. The Chairmen have been paid $20k per year. I doubt Pulver earns anywhere near his past appointments and I'm sure that would apply for most admin side staff.

Many on this site disagree with their strategies at times which is to be expected because:

A) there's many different ways to skin a cat; and
B) due to the lack of success in many areas they are more prone to criticism. Since what they are doing isn't working extremely well, perhaps something else would.

 

[Quick Hands]

I reckon that the first priority to fixing the mess is to find some investors, like CVC.
We then find a new CEO that isn't a member of the boys club (see the reds)
After this pretty much everything you said except school rugby - I don't agree with having secondary schools play on a wednesday, because academic commitments and playing rugby would be very hard to do. Instead, I would propose this:

Not sure what happens in Queensland, but in NSW all state secondary schools have a half day Wednesday for sport. When I was at school in the late 70s-80s the CHS zone competition in this area had:

13 A and B
14 A and B
15 A and B
16 A and B
1st and 2nd grades

Most zones in rugby areas played similar type competition.

All played home and away matches at 1pm on a Wednesday during the winter. In a generation, it's gone. Most of the schools in that competition either play no rugby at all, or enter teams in a knock-out gala day. Wednesday afternoon school sport is now soccer, rugby league and touch football.

Same story at primary schools. State primary schools in NSW have a half day Friday for school sport. The local PSSA used to have a rugby competition when I was in primary school - now it's league and soccer.

There's no chance in the world that you will ever get state schools in NSW to play weekend sport. (The exception being Sydney High - where different allowances are paid to staff). There's no way the staff would stand for it and the Teachers' Federation would fight it to the last breath at any expansion of the historical anomaly which is Sydney High.

So in NSW anyway, Wednesday afternoon sport is strong in state high schools - it's just that rugby has almost disappeared from it.

 

[half]

Jesus this thread isn't called the "bitch and moan about the problems in the wallabies and ARU" it's called "how to fix the wallabies" (and ARU). QH and Gnostic (and TWAS, half among others) you aresaying what the problems are (which is correct, you've got to know what the problem is to solve it), but you DON'T PROPOSE ANY SOLUTIONS.

I think all those mentioned have put forwards ideas. Many of those ideas are not popular. This site and forums in general have a tendency to attack ideas they don’t agree with.

My concerns reside around local park teams. People I am know who volunteer their time and often money will tell you they have not in their lifetimes seen it so bad.

The base of the pyramid essentially the foundation of the game is in considerable pressure.

For me we lost in when we first went professional. We had to go professional however the competition was developed by a company to sell product to a pay TV company. The ARU in particular did not have the skill to take the deal, but retain what was strong in rugby at the time and build upon it.

As I have already posted it was very successful in the early days and those TV companies heaped praise on the ARU management even went into the press and said so. JON was through a God with incapable wisdom and knowledge.

When in fact, League was tearing itself apart both pre and post the super league war, soccer was it it’s dead throws of existence [NSL], and AFL for once was coming off poor management.

So the poor results of the other codes was more of a reason for our success than the ARU & TV exc’s being so clever and paying themselves accordingly. Destroying effectively the Sydney and Brisbane club competition which were shown on FTA TV. Turning 100 year old state teams into club teams.

So let’s move forward SANDZZAR are still calling the shots and it’s all about the TV product. We are caught and held by golden chains, to a process that is slowly hurting us.

We need to think about how to regrow our base, otherwise we are at risk of destroying our game. We must devise a way of breaking from SANDZZAR and creating something to replace it.


As for the call on what to do its difficult as many areas need funding. For me we need an inclusive of all in rugby agreement to develop a national based domestic competition to replace SANDZZAR and we have four years to do it. The money will be less but basketball and soccer have learnt how to run competitions without the best players.

 

[The torpedo]

Not sure what happens in Queensland, but in NSW all state secondary schools have a half day Wednesday for sport. When I was at school in the late 70s-80s the CHS zone competition in this area had:

13 A and B
14 A and B
15 A and B
16 A and B
1st and 2nd grades

Most zones in rugby areas played similar type competition.

All played home and away matches at 1pm on a Wednesday during the winter. In a generation, it's gone. Most of the schools in that competition either play no rugby at all, or enter teams in a knock-out gala day. Wednesday afternoon school sport is now soccer, rugby league and touch football.

Same story at primary schools. State primary schools in NSW have a half day Friday for school sport. The local PSSA used to have a rugby competition when I was in primary school - now it's league and soccer.

There's no chance in the world that you will ever get state schools in NSW to play weekend sport. (The exception being Sydney High - where different allowances are paid to staff). There's no way the staff would stand for it and the Teachers' Federation would fight it to the last breath at any expansion of the historical anomaly which is Sydney High.

So in NSW anyway, Wednesday afternoon sport is strong in state high schools - it's just that rugby has almost disappeared from it.

In primary school sport is a half-day on Fridays in terms 2 and 4 (at least time at my primary school in 2009). For private schools rugby is played on Saturdays.
Also is Sydney High virtually the same as a private school a la Brisbane State High?

 

[Quick Hands]

In primary school sport is a half-day on Fridays in terms 2 and 4 (at least time at my primary school in 2009). For private schools rugby is played on Saturdays.
Also is Sydney High virtually the same as a private school a la Brisbane State High?

Sydney High is a bit of a historical anomaly. It's a member of the AAGPS (elite private school organisation) but it is also a member of the CHS (state school association). They play Saturday sport and have some after school training, but also have a half day Wednesday for sport - I understand that their GPS teams train in this time and their CHS teams play.

It's also academically selective (not academic and sports selective like Brisbane SHS).

 

[The torpedo]

Sydney High is a bit of a historical anomaly. It's a member of the AAGPS (elite private school organisation) but it is also a member of the CHS (state school association). They play Saturday sport and have some after school training, but also have a half day Wednesday for sport - I understand that their GPS teams train in this time and their CHS teams play.

It's also academically selective (not academic and sports selective like Brisbane SHS).

So like BSHS

 

[half]

Sydney High the past few years is normally flogged each match they makeup the numbers but contribute very little these days.

 

[Quick Hands]

Sydney High the past few years is normally flogged each match they makeup the numbers but contribute very little these days.

Certainly the case in rugby, but not in all sports. They've been both GPS and CHS basketball champions in recent years. They have also won the national schoolboy basketball title on at least one occasion.

 

[wamberal]

Sydney High the past few years is normally flogged each match they makeup the numbers but contribute very little these days.

This is probably a reflection of the demographic changes that are happening, particularly in the academically selective state schools which used to be rugby strongholds.

 

[RedsHappy]

Interesting that on Foxtel's Rugby360 last night the consensus was that the Wallabies badly needed a line-out coach with specialist line-out experience. They said Ledesma had been filling that role and if so, not adequately when we look at the line out's performance.

Always good to have Rugby360's 'expert' endorsement for proposals numerous of us have been making here for some considerable time.

 

[Sully]

Interesting that on Foxtel's Rugby360 last night the consensus was that the Wallabies badly needed a line-out coach with specialist line-out experience. They said Ledesma had been filling that role and if so, not adequately when we look at the line out's performance.

Always good to have Rugby360's 'expert' endorsement for proposals numerous of us have been making here for some considerable time.

Is there a specialist lineout coach in the country?

 

[Stands]

I think all those mentioned have put forwards ideas. Many of those ideas are not popular. This site and forums in general have a tendency to attack ideas they don’t agree with.

My concerns reside around local park teams. People I am know who volunteer their time and often money will tell you they have not in their lifetimes seen it so bad.

The base of the pyramid essentially the foundation of the game is in considerable pressure.

For me we lost in when we first went professional. We had to go professional however the competition was developed by a company to sell product to a pay TV company. The ARU in particular did not have the skill to take the deal, but retain what was strong in rugby at the time and build upon it.

As I have already posted it was very successful in the early days and those TV companies heaped praise on the ARU management even went into the press and said so. JON was through a God with incapable wisdom and knowledge.

When in fact, League was tearing itself apart both pre and post the super league war, soccer was it it’s dead throws of existence [NSL], and AFL for once was coming off poor management.

So the poor results of the other codes was more of a reason for our success than the ARU & TV exc’s being so clever and paying themselves accordingly. Destroying effectively the Sydney and Brisbane club competition which were shown on FTA TV. Turning 100 year old state teams into club teams.

So let’s move forward SANDZZAR are still calling the shots and it’s all about the TV product. We are caught and held by golden chains, to a process that is slowly hurting us.

We need to think about how to regrow our base, otherwise we are at risk of destroying our game. We must devise a way of breaking from SANDZZAR and creating something to replace it.


As for the call on what to do its difficult as many areas need funding. For me we need an inclusive of all in rugby agreement to develop a national based domestic competition to replace SANDZZAR and we have four years to do it. The money will be less but basketball and soccer have learnt how to run competitions without the best players.

Great points Half,

Should we be sinking the funds into the Force and the Rebels? shouldn't the funds be used for player and code development back into the regions that the players and the fans are from?
Do we need 5 Super Rugby teams? Do they need to be National?
Even NRL doesn't have a team from WA?

Should the "NRC" be the basis for the main competition running 26 weeks to match the NRL? and the Shute Shield and Premier Rugby feed the NRC with talent? The current 2 comps e.g. SS and then NRC doesn't make it easy for Rugby fans to watch rugby consistently for 26 weeks as compared to NRL?

We seem to be splitting the rugby fan across 3 teams e.g. Waratahs, Easts and Rams

 

[I like to watch]

Our fearless leader earlier this morning.....

http://media.skyracing.com.au/POD/1/eoPcby.mp3

A good administrator with a workable plan to address the major issues of the game,or just another bullshitter spinning the usual crap?

 

[RedsHappy]

Is there a specialist lineout coach in the country?

Not sure but Rugby360 were advocating perhaps an immediate part-time role for someone like N Sharpe and that makes sense to me, much more sense than in effect having no one.

By and large, I think I am right that line-out was a volatile weakness even in the 2014 Tahs' performances, it seems to be a blind spot in MC's coaching awareness or capabilities.

Btw, R360, Cam Sheppard in particular, was bemoaning the truly woeful Wallaby kicking, how it's pretty obviously been like that and uncorrected for too long, and how something needs to be urgently done about it.