Ideas for Australian Rugby Union

[Inside Shoulder]

They are club players, most of them will be looking for a bit of exposure. As long as the expenses are covered I dont see what the issue is.

If they are contracted my understanding is that they are limited in how many games they can play in a year. If they are not contracted then last year's results will bear little or no relationship to this year's team.
Dont get me wrong: I think this is a good, if not vital, idea. JON does not agree with me (or you). It will be cheaper than the comp dreamt up by JON and implemented by Flowers but it would still be expensive and have no means of supporting itself: TV revenue would be negligible I would have thought.
Where would the money to run it come from? if you have an idea about that it might be a goer without ARU support.

 

[FiveStarStu]

If they are contracted my understanding is that they are limited in how many games they can play in a year. If they are not contracted then last year's results will bear little or no relationship to this year's team.
Dont get me wrong: I think this is a good, if not vital, idea. JON does not agree with me (or you). It will be cheaper than the comp dreamt up by JON and implemented by Flowers but it would still be expensive and have no means of supporting itself: TV revenue would be negligible I would have thought.
Where would the money to run it come from? if you have an idea about that it might be a goer without ARU support.

As long as the sponsorship covered flights, accom, and compensation for players missing work, then it'd be a goer.

It'd have to come from both the ARU and the state unions sponsoring their competing teams.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

As long as the sponsorship covered flights, accom, and compensation for players missing work, then it'd be a goer.

It'd have to come from both the ARU and the state unions sponsoring their competing teams.

ARU wont and NSWRU, for one, cant

 

[Bowside]

As long as the sponsorship covered flights, accom, and compensation for players missing work, then it'd be a goer.

It'd have to come from both the ARU and the state unions sponsoring their competing teams.

Whats JON on nowdays? Still 900,000 thousand?

That should cover half of it.

 

[120kg Winger]

The unfortunate reality is that anything that tries to include Super rugby players at club rugby can no longer work. Everything has been channelled into super rugby and now the season is so long that only the fringe players are able to join their Clubs.

I think it's time to bring back pathways through representative footy. Play Club then region (Country/City North,South etc) then state then Australian Uncontracted players. The cream will rise based on playing form and not through academy cronyism. The kids who come stright out of school will actually be tested against the best uncontraced players, rather than based on some schoolboy form against kids.

It creates a new level to play at, a development opportunity for players and coaches and doesn't give the clubs too much to sulk about. The only down side is the Sydney and Brisbane Premier comps may need some readjustment. But given they have nearly destroyed themselves and club rugby (in Sydney anyway) then the clubs should do as they're told.

Of course people will continue to rage against reality and hope some national club comp can get up. Even though all the best players are playing Super rugby and the fans can already access that. So I suppose "nothing to be done" will carry the day..as usual

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

The unfortunate reality is that anything that tries to include Super rugby players at club rugby can no longer work. Everything has been channelled into super rugby and now the season is so long that only the fringe players are able to join their Clubs.

I think it's time to bring back pathways through representative footy. Play Club then region (Country/City North,South etc) then state then Australian Uncontracted players. The cream will rise based on playing form and not through academy cronyism. The kids who come stright out of school will actually be tested against the best uncontraced players, rather than based on some schoolboy form against kids.

It creates a new level to play at, a development opportunity for players and coaches and doesn't give the clubs too much to sulk about. The only down side is the Sydney and Brisbane Premier comps may need some readjustment. But given they have nearly destroyed themselves and club rugby (in Sydney anyway) then the clubs should do as they're told.

Of course people will continue to rage against reality and hope some national club comp can get up. Even though all the best players are playing Super rugby and the fans can already access that. So I suppose "nothing to be done" will carry the day..as usual

Sought of my thinking with the re-establishment of the Australian Rugby Shield. The original championship was amateur involving what were essentially regional/provincial teams competing. It was in my opinion a fantastic competition. One that should be revisited. You could split Sydney into three (Sydney inc. South Sydney, West and North), split Brisbane into 2 add in both Country Unions, ACT/SNSW, Vic and WA initially. However, this time around use it as a means to funnel non-Wallabies (and Wallabies when not competing in the Tri-Nations) , best clubmen and up ad coming future professionals.That ensures a stronger competition as the talent is more condensed creating more competition for places to emerge. I agree. Think about how both the SA and NZ systems work. What I have been pushing is practically the same.

 

[Swat]

Clone pocock

 

[Country Kid]

I think that is the best chance to get big games out at CUA or Parra Stadium or the Gold/Sunshine Coast. In reality they will never play tests there, but a good interstate fixture is nothing to poke a stick at. Take the game to the people, make it a carnival atmosphere. Tie it in with local juniors games or something.

Yes BB, a carnival atmosphere is the way to go for every super game, every franchise, every venue. Make a whole day of it.

In Hong Kong there is a New Year day 'junior' festival - with age teams from the (Kowloon) peninsular V HK Island; it has girls age teams competing against each other (10 a side I think); and boys age teams - with the 'big' games at the end of the day U16, U18, U19 games between HK locals (attending HK schools) V HK overseas (those attending OS schools). The local and overseas teams have a mix of Chinese and Western boys - great atmosphere and good rugby.

It would be great to see every super game preceded by a whole day of rugby; girls teams, boys teams (club or rep), indigenous teams, sevens games. And maybe use these occasions to have junior teams from Samoa, Tonga, Fiji, New Guinea part of the carnival - that would generate massive interest in western sydney - particularly if games where at Parramatta stadium or Penrith.

 

[Melbourne Terrace]

Organise an annual australian sevens competition for australian teams to give us something else to watch in summer apart from the gold coast sevens.

 

[JimboJoe1006]

The goal of the ARU should be to make rugby Australia's national sport. This is done by boosting popularity, which is done by winning more, specifically become the best in the World. In order to achieve this, as many have pointed out, it is essential to develop another tier of rugby in Australia.

In this regard, the best thing for Rugby in Australia would be the re-establishment of the ARC. However, due to various reasons, that is not a realistic option in the short/medium-term. Instead, I think there should be a formal 2nd XV competition. A competition amongst the Australian Super rugby sides with their 'A' teams. For example, NSW A plays QLD A prior to the 1st XV clashes. Each team plays each other once, for example NSW A plays QLD A once a year, alternating between Sydney and Brisbane.

The benefits it would provide to player's development is enormous and obvious.

The main issue, as with most ideas, is cost. Who pays for it? Well hopefully itself! Rugby fixtures have very high fixed costs and it makes sense to play more rugby on those nights/afternoons when these costs are already sunk. Revenue will significantly increase as families are more encouraged to go, 'two games for the price of one' (marketing). The event will start earlier, and go for longer. People will be more likely to buy food and drinks at the game. Hopefully, this pays for the costs of travel, sleeping, and perhaps coaching staff. If not, ARU, State Unions and even players themselves have a significant incentive to bear the costs. The costs will not be huge at all, with each team only playing two or three away games annually.

Two options for coaching: firstly, nominate a coach from each local competition to coach each team for the year. For example, John Manenti could coach NSW A. There is an incentive for John to do this, however, it could present complications on clashes between NSW A and Eastwood. The second option would be to have a member of each Super team's coaching staff be the head coach of NSW A. For example, Scott Bowen could be the head coach of NSW A. This would improve overall management team of each Super team and allow future coaches to be groomed.

In summary, this is a fairly quick option. It could commence in 2012, with a one-off game between NSW A and QLD A. Then into a formal competition in 2012, with all five States. It is the fastest, easiest and most cheapest way of introducing another tier to Australian rugby. From 2012, should it prove a success, increase the annual matches to eight each (from four). I think this system will provide significant on-field success to the Super sides and thus the Wallabies. Boosting popularity and therefore making a re-establishment of the ARC a realistic goal in the next few years.

 

[waratahjesus]

Why do people keep acting like having another tier of rugby would equal success? Sure it would create a pathway but it doesn't actually mean results. If it does. Just import good players from everywhere to Sydney and Melbourne and use the comp as the tier. Penrith needs players, sign them up with WA, do a west west thing. Easy as, solved.

 

[Jnor]

*whoosh*

 

[JimboJoe1006]

Why do people keep acting like having another tier of rugby would equal success? Sure it would create a pathway but it doesn't actually mean results. If it does. Just import good players from everywhere to Sydney and Melbourne and use the comp as the tier. Penrith needs players, sign them up with WA, do a west west thing. Easy as, solved.

A tiered structure promotes efficiency, in any profession. The success of the CC, NPC and tiered leagues in Europe highlight that rugby is no different. It creates a system whereby players are constantly competing amongst each other, breeding a competitive environment at a high standard. Thus, they are important and Australia has only two tiers (NSW and QLD have three, and hopefully the ACT can develop a third with White's fantastic new policy re. club rugby). This is not enough, considering our main rivals have more. Therefore, in my opinion, Australia must develop a nationwide third tier.

Whilst your idea does create another national level, the Shute Shield. Such a model would not benefit Australian rugby. As it would stunt the growth of the game. It is important that Melbourne and Perth can develop a competitive club rugby competition. With Rebel and Force contracted players playing in the competition to raise the standards and thus assist the development of the other players in the competition. This would improve the players currently playing in Victorian and Sydney club competitions (Victorian with increased competitiveness and Sydney with increased opportunities for players). Thus, improving the standard of Australian Super teams and the Wallabies.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

A tiered structure promotes efficiency, in any profession. The success of the CC, NPC and tiered leagues in Europe highlight that rugby is no different. It creates a system whereby players are constantly competing amongst each other, breeding a competitive environment at a high standard. Thus, they are important and Australia has only two tiers (NSW and QLD have three, and hopefully the ACT can develop a third with White's fantastic new policy re. club rugby). This is not enough, considering our main rivals have more. Therefore, in my opinion, Australia must develop a nationwide third tier.

Whilst your idea does create another national level, the Shute Shield. Such a model would not benefit Australian rugby. As it would stunt the growth of the game. It is important that Melbourne and Perth can develop a competitive club rugby competition. With Rebel and Force contracted players playing in the competition to raise the standards and thus assist the development of the other players in the competition. This would improve the players currently playing in Victorian and Sydney club competitions (Victorian with increased competitiveness and Sydney with increased opportunities for players). Thus, improving the standard of Australian Super teams and the Wallabies.

I agree. It's about creating another tier of competitive Rugby above club. It should be that club Rugby is an entry point for prospect talent including schoolboys to vie for selection in a more regionalised tier above that based on North, West and East/Southern Sydne, North and South Brisbane, ACT/SNSW , Vic and WA. Over time both NSWC and QLDC could come into the fold.

This would allow the cream to compete in a highly competitive environment similar to that of the NPC or CC. Better prepared for Super Rugby and greatly beneficial in developing further depth for Aus Rugby.

 

[Richard D. James]

There is simply no way an ARC style competition will work in the foreseeable future. There is not enough money or support to warrant it and wanting a development path for young players and a conditioning program for Wallabies are not good enough reasons.

So much of sport is emotional and the emotional desire for a national competition is not strong enough to justify the money that will be required.


The focus must be on club rugby. Improving the standard in WA, Victoria and strengthening Rugby in Western Sydney. Growing the game further in Brisbane and East/North Sydney.

If we truly want Rugby to be a national game this is where we start. A national comp will come when there is enough demand. Until then we grow the club game in each state, make them a a prominent part of the community and strengthen and expand the existing emotional ties fans feel to their club.

This is a much more pragmatic and feasible then pulling a national competition out of JON's arse....

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

There is simply no way an ARC style competition will work in the foreseeable future. There is not enough money or support to warrant it and wanting a development path for young players and a conditioning program for Wallabies are not good enough reasons.

So much of sport is emotional and the emotional desire for a national competition is not strong enough to justify the money that will be required.


The focus must be on club rugby. Improving the standard in WA, Victoria and strengthening Rugby in Western Sydney. Growing the game further in Brisbane and East/North Sydney.

If we truly want Rugby to be a national game this is where we start. A national comp will come when there is enough demand. Until then we grow the club game in each state, make them a a prominent part of the community and strengthen and expand the existing emotional ties fans feel to their club.

This is a much more pragmatic and feasible then pulling a national competition out of JON's arse....

I agree that developing the club game would be beneficial. The problem is I just cannot see that happening. There's far too much self interest at that level.

 

[Richard D. James]

I agree that developing the club game would be beneficial. The problem is I just cannot see that happening. There's far too much self interest at that level.

Well I think having more money and ARU support for the Shute Shield, John I Dent, etc. is in the big clubs self-interest. The Shute Shield, for example, becomes a stand-alone competition administrated as a professional, commercial entity.

Improving crowds at the club level is much more achievable than trying to create a whole new audience and the improvements can be much more modest.

What kind of crowds would be required to make a national comp financially viable? 5,000? 10,000? More? For the Shute Shield, a few thousand more punters a year going to games would be a massive boost (particularly out west) and much more realistic.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Well I think having more money and ARU support for the Shute Shield, John I Dent, etc. is in the big clubs self-interest. The Shute Shield, for example, becomes a stand-alone competition administrated as a professional, commercial entity.

Improving crowds at the club level is much more achievable than trying to create a whole new audience and the improvements can be much more modest.

What kind of crowds would be required to make a national comp financially viable? 5,000? 10,000? More? For the Shute Shield, a few thousand more punters a year going to games would be a massive boost (particularly out west) and much more realistic.

If you could professionalize the Shute Shield then yes, that would be far more sustainable than attempting to establish a national competition. Though, I'd like to see how they'd go about helping the game out west. Another question would be how to include the stronger Country region just north and south of the general Sydney metropolitan area.

 

[Richard D. James]

If you could professionalize the Shute Shield then yes, that would be far more sustainable than attempting to establish a national competition. Though, I'd like to see how they'd go about helping the game out west. Another question would be how to include the stronger Country region just north and south of the general Sydney metropolitan area.

To clarify, I mean that the entity that runs the comp is professional, it would still be "semi-professional" in regards to player wages. I think the comp could expand beyond Sydney to other parts of the NSWRU area eventually, it would just take time and growth.

As for out west, I think the clubs are key. As someone else said in this thread I the schools can be left to their own devices. They can continue to provide scholarships to whoever they want, but a kid who doesn't want to go to a private school can still play Rugby for his local club and have a clear path for advancement up the grades, to the top tier of club rugby and then possibly super rugby if they are good enough.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

To clarify, I mean that the entity that runs the comp is professional, it would still be "semi-professional" in regards to player wages. I think the comp could expand beyond Sydney to other parts of the NSWRU area eventually, it would just take time and growth.

As for out west, I think the clubs are key. As someone else said in this thread I the schools can be left to their own devices. They can continue to provide scholarships to whoever they want, but a kid who doesn't want to go to a private school can still play Rugby for his local club and have a clear path for advancement up the grades, to the top tier of club rugby and then possibly super rugby if they are good enough.

I gathered that was what you were talking about. Though, in time a professional administration if successful will eventually filter through to the clubs and players themselves.

The issue out west and take it from someone who knows this first hand is getting the kids playing the game in the first place. The west of the city needs a lot of attention development wise. I really struggle to see how the clubs could help amend this situation.

Finally, if a professional administration were achieved and the opportunities to expand the competition further did arise the obvious choices as far as I am concerned would be the Illawarra and Hunter. Would also like to see some attention given to the Campbelltown region.