Ideas for Australian Rugby Union

[wamberal]

John Coffee,

The simple fact is, the game is now professional, and in Australia it ranks behind the NRL, the AFL, and in some ways, to soccer. Another simple fact is, there are no simple answers to complicated questions. We have inherited the situation we are in: no doubt if we controlled the international laws of rugby (as our two major opponents do in their games) our game would be more successful than it is. But we are an international sport, and others control the rules.

I went to a state school, and played rugby, and lots of state schools still play the game, especially the more academically elite schools. Unfortunately, with the advent of professionalism, the kids who went to my school who had significant rugby talent, would now be at sports high schools, and once they are there, they are open to being offered league contracts.


Mate, the treasure chest is pretty empty. Yes, we would all love to see lots of money poured into all places where the game is played, particularly in the west and south-west of Sydney. But, sadly, the game does not make enough to allow for lots of money to be poured into any particular place, at the junior level volunteers continue to do the heavy lifting, as they always have.


There is no protectionism, the simple fact, again, is that we are down the totem pole, in terms of popularity, ratings, sponsorship, and so on. Money is what counts in the professional era, and we have only a small amount compared to our competitors.

 

[happyjack]

There are some very simple things we could do which may actually be revenue positive but more importantly create tangible content and structure within the game.

The easiest one would to be to run a national conference every year after the Spring Tour finishes. It could be in a different venue each year and would encompass all levels of the games and all elements.
I could go into great detail here but if you think of all the planning meetings that occur across the sphere of the game, all the education opportunities for participants in all streams, the capacity to receive feedback and centrally communicate national goals.

The next thing we could do is to create national competitions, again where the competition itself will create value but participation is user pays.
- National Club Competition based on the European Model (ARU control the Premier draws and windows)
- National Club 7s
- National/Southern Hemisphere U19 Tournament in October
- National Schools Chamoions Trophy (all major Premiership winners play off - this create pride and value for schools to invest further in Rugby)

The ARU need to remember that most people I community land want to be able to contribute at the highest level and will give time and money to do so. They just need the opportunities to contribute.

 

[Badger]

Another point about the HK Sevens is that it has led to very little growth in real terms of the game in Hong Kong. After 35 years of the Sevens, the last 15 or so being very successful in every respect, there were two "locals" in the Hong Kong international side that I saw a couple of weeks ago. (Racism alert: by "local" I mean Hong Kong Chinese. It is possible, but not likely, that some of the caucasians in the team were born in Hong Kong, but I think we would all agree that for the game to be widely appreciated and played in the wider PRC, it would be a good thing for local Chinese to be seen succeeding).

Wamberal, following from your post, you might be interested to hear that the Tahs hosted three HKRFU players last week for training and skills development with coaches to follow in early July.

Link to article: http://www.hkrugby.com/en/node/2158

From the HKRFU website, there appears to be plenty of events undertaken to generate grassroots interest within the Chinese community, in particular the local schools. Whether participation/interest can be sustained in the longer term after the kids leave school is open to debate, especially without sufficient coverage and access to games in the local Chinese language media. If rugby could get a proportion of the coverage the EPL gets, it would be a good start as I was surprised at the level of interest in European soccer in general.

 

[John Coffee]

John Coffee,

The simple fact is, the game is now professional, and in Australia it ranks behind the NRL, the AFL, and in some ways, to soccer. Another simple fact is, there are no simple answers to complicated questions. We have inherited the situation we are in: no doubt if we controlled the international laws of rugby (as our two major opponents do in their games) our game would be more successful than it is. But we are an international sport, and others control the rules.

I went to a state school, and played rugby, and lots of state schools still play the game, especially the more academically elite schools. Unfortunately, with the advent of professionalism, the kids who went to my school who had significant rugby talent, would now be at sports high schools, and once they are there, they are open to being offered league contracts.


Mate, the treasure chest is pretty empty. Yes, we would all love to see lots of money poured into all places where the game is played, particularly in the west and south-west of Sydney. But, sadly, the game does not make enough to allow for lots of money to be poured into any particular place, at the junior level volunteers continue to do the heavy lifting, as they always have.


There is no protectionism, the simple fact, again, is that we are down the totem pole, in terms of popularity, ratings, sponsorship, and so on. Money is what counts in the professional era, and we have only a small amount compared to our competitors.

True wamberal true. I attended over the years some communities who indulge the game at a level resembling something of a cult following. They played the game by emulating players they only discovered from magazines left behind by touring soldiers of whom they saw play the game and invited the locals to participate. No boots, no uniforms, no rugby fields. Rugby, as a sporting activity has never been a matter of money for those that dont have it, for those players it is about desire, willingness and fortitude to engage in a sporting activity that they enjoy. Protectionism is about sustaining and investing in a brand that needs money to remain viable and competitive. Professionalism is about money, rugby as an acitivity is not and I never confuse the two. Grow the sport as an activity, and the rest takes care of itself.

 

[wamberal]

An anecdote that some of you will be interested in. Our next door neighbour, a Kiwi rugby fanatic, told me that his nephew aged 14 or so, who lives in Sydney, was invited to play in a rep trial for under 15s. The kid is currently playing league, but my friend flew down to Sydney (we live in Qld now), to take the kid to the trial just to make sure that he went. The kid apparently enjoys playing rugby ("they come at you from all directions") and his coach for the rep team is Simon Poidevin. My neighbour was impressed at Poido's interest and involvement with all the players.

All is not lost!

 

[wamberal]

From the HKRFU website, there appears to be plenty of events undertaken to generate grassroots interest within the Chinese community, in particular the local schools. Whether participation/interest can be sustained in the longer term after the kids leave school is open to debate, especially without sufficient coverage and access to games in the local Chinese language media. If rugby could get a proportion of the coverage the EPL gets, it would be a good start as I was surprised at the level of interest in European soccer in general.

Thanks, Badger. There are a couple of huge problems in Hong Kong. One is the scarcity of grounds. Another is that the local community does not see sport as being particularly important, or valuable. Hong Kong has produced a few reasonable soccer players over the years, and a couple of good jockeys. Cannot think of any other sporting successes that they have had.

The EPL is interesting to the locals primarily because of betting. I lived in Hong Kong for a few years, and one abiding memory is of going for my morning walk at the usual time, and it happened to coincide with the final of that year's soccer World Cup - 1994 - it went to a penalty shoot-out. It took me a while to work out what the crowd noise was from the nearby apartment buildings, it was thousands of tv watchers reacting to the excitement of the shoot-out, as money was won and lost. This was about 6 am. local time.

 

[flat_eric]

Does anyone else think the ARU needs to steel itself and do more for the game in Perth with the arrival of the 'West Coast Pirates' rugby league bid. It is odds on favourite to enter the NRL in 2015.

 

[Braveheart81]

I'd be surprised if the NRL went with a Perth team. I think Central Coast, PNG and a second Brisbane team would be the most likely candidates.

 

[wamberal]

Does anyone else think the ARU needs to steel itself and do more for the game in Perth with the arrival of the 'West Coast Pirates' rugby league bid. It is odds on favourite to enter the NRL in 2015.

Nup, the ARU gave Perth the franchise - ahead of the favourites, Melbourne - principally because there appeared to be so much community support. It is up to the rugby community to support their team.

 

[Jets]

Another point about the HK Sevens is that it has led to very little growth in real terms of the game in Hong Kong. After 35 years of the Sevens, the last 15 or so being very successful in every respect, there were two "locals" in the Hong Kong international side that I saw a couple of weeks ago. (Racism alert: by "local" I mean Hong Kong Chinese. It is possible, but not likely, that some of the caucasians in the team were born in Hong Kong, but I think we would all agree that for the game to be widely appreciated and played in the wider PRC, it would be a good thing for local Chinese to be seen succeeding).

Having grown up in Hong Kong it was were I was first introduced to rugby. I played junior rugby there in the early 80's and it was almost exclusively a game for children of foreign workers. I do not recall and "local" players in the teams I played in and maybe the odd one in the opposition. Having since been back I was impressed to see a mini rugby carnival where almost all of the participants were "locals". While it has taken some time I do think they have made inroads.

 

[Badger]

Thanks, Badger. There are a couple of huge problems in Hong Kong. One is the scarcity of grounds. Another is that the local community does not see sport as being particularly important, or valuable. Hong Kong has produced a few reasonable soccer players over the years, and a couple of good jockeys. Cannot think of any other sporting successes that they have had.

The EPL is interesting to the locals primarily because of betting. I lived in Hong Kong for a few years, and one abiding memory is of going for my morning walk at the usual time, and it happened to coincide with the final of that year's soccer World Cup - 1994 - it went to a penalty shoot-out. It took me a while to work out what the crowd noise was from the nearby apartment buildings, it was thousands of tv watchers reacting to the excitement of the shoot-out, as money was won and lost. This was about 6 am. local time.

Cheers. The only other sportsperson I can come up with is Lee Lai Shan who won a Windsurfing gold medal in the 1996 Olympics. Also, the physique of the local people may not be predisposed to 15 man a side rugby. I reckon you be struggling to find enough locals that could wear jerseys 1-8. Probably be more successful in sevens rugby where it would appear the HKRFU is focusing it grassroots efforts.

I hadn't considered the gambling side of things re: the EPL. Having seen people out and about in their soccer shirts and speaking with local HKers, I thought it was just a genuine love of the game. But it should be no surprise with the love of gambling in HK, Macau and China.

 

[wamberal]

Badger,

I would be pretty sure that soccer, in one form or another, is easily the most popular participatory sport in Hong Kong. Let's hope that rugby grows in popularity there, sooner or later it might start to resonate with the rest of the PRC.

 

[Jets]

The thing with football is that it can be played on the concrete spaces that are in abundance there. The other thing is that anyone can join in and quickly understand how to play, the offside rule isn't enforced. A simple version of rugby, such as Rookie Rugby developed in the US, would be a good way to grow interest in the game there.

 

[wamberal]

The thing with football is that it can be played on the concrete spaces that are in abundance there. The other thing is that anyone can join in and quickly understand how to play, the offside rule isn't enforced. A simple version of rugby, such as Rookie Rugby developed in the US, would be a good way to grow interest in the game there.

Basketball currently fills that potential space, I suggest.

 

[Badger]

Badger,

I would be pretty sure that soccer, in one form or another, is easily the most popular participatory sport in Hong Kong. Let's hope that rugby grows in popularity there, sooner or later it might start to resonate with the rest of the PRC.

Apparently, rugby is a People's Liberation Army of China approved sport. which is a good start. With Sevens now an Olympic sport, it could be another kickstarter for the game there and everywhere else.

Having watched some of the local Chinese HK TV, I would say both soccer and basketball are quite popular participation sports. Basketball's exposure certainly helped by Yao Ming's success and aided by Jeremy Lin's presence this year with the Knicks. Maybe one day we'll see a player of Chinese descent make it into one of the major provincial rugby teams.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Define the real grass roots of the game.

Fund those actual roots.

 

[It is what it is]

Fund those actual roots.

Sporting scholarships, accommodation, jobs, petrol money and now you want them to fund roots!
What's next?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Televise the Final of the Schoolboys Championships.

Advertise the Schoolboys Championships outside the "Rugby Family".

Get Some Column Inches in the Papers on the Schoolboy Championships. If Grumbles can't write the articles, then write the bloody stuff for him. Alternatively send Adam Frier there.

 

[Budgie]

Run an ARU academy team or Australia Pres XV on NZ NPC Competition. Call them "the Patrol" to honour our Surf lifesavers.

 

[Dam0]

Run an ARU academy team or Australia Pres XV on NZ NPC Competition. Call them "the Patrol" to honour our Surf lifesavers.

Do you think that it is likely the NZRU would accept that? I would say the chances are between slim and none, with none as the hot favourite.