Ideas for Australian Rugby Union

[Lindommer]

If Australian residents earn their income in a (civilised) country with a lower tax rate than Australia's we've more than likely got a double taxation agreement with that country which means the highest taxation rate of either country is effectively collected from the taxpayer. It's a no go.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

In that case, how much money from the higher taxing country gets forwarded to the lower (more civilised) jurisdiction?

Does higher taxing Uncle Joe Hickey get to keep the lot, just because he is the greediest?

 

[I like to watch]

The way it works,is the ATO establishes how much tax you owe.
You receive a credit for what you pay OS,if there is a tax treaty between the two countries.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

http://www.treasury.gov.au/Policy-Topics/Taxation/Tax-Treaties/HTML/Income-Tax-Treaties

IIRC the deal in the UK involves leaving money in a government account representing the difference between the sportsman's lower rate and the marginal rate and you can only remove it after x years - or something like that - and i think the extra is not taxable in Oz. But I'm not sure if that is right or was ever right having looked at the links below.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...n-tax-work-for-sporting-events-in-the-UK.html

http://www.deloitte.com/assets/Dcom-UnitedKingdom/Local Assets/Documents/UK_SBU_WSLR_May06.pdf

 

[Jets]

Wasn't this part of the reason Pat Rafter lived in the Bahamas for most of the year? He wasn't required to pay the higher tax rate for his income.

 

[Lindommer]

It's the residency, not the citizenship, that's the issue. Rafter chose to make his principal place of residence Bermuda for most of his tennis career for this exact purpose.

 

[Brumby Runner]

It's the residency, not the citizenship, that's the issue. Rafter chose to make his principal place of residence Bermuda for most of his tennis career for this exact purpose.

So again the big end of town apparently is given favourable treatment on tax matters? Corporations based in Aus, with or without the Head Office being located here, apparently can minimise their tax bills by setting up their accounts in tax haven countries but not individuals? See Google, Apple and Microsoft as apparent examples.

 

[Braveheart81]

Australians resident taxpayers are taxed on their worldwide income (with a credit for tax paid overseas).

Pat Rafter could domicile himself in the Bahamas during his career because he didn't actually live in Australia and spent little time here.

An Australian rugby player would certainly be domiciled in Australia and would be taxed as an Australian resident taxpayer.

So again the big end of town apparently is given favourable treatment on tax matters? Corporations based in Aus, with or without the Head Office being located here, apparently can minimise their tax bills by setting up their accounts in tax haven countries but not individuals? See Google, Apple and Microsoft as apparent examples.

This is something that countries around the world are struggling to deal with. It is easy when companies are selling tangible property that comes from somewhere but it becomes very difficult when what is being sold is essentially data (such as Google's ads which generate so much of their revenue). Tax legislation is yet to catch up.

 

[wamberal]

Aussie Lleyton Hewitt and his family are domiciled offshore and he would only pay Australian income tax on Australian income sources.


It is not all that easy to establish non-resident status for tax purposes. One key requirement is to prove that you do indeed have a permanent residence outside Australia (meaning that you have no intention of returning to live in Australia for the forseeable future). I have been told of merchant seamen who spend just about the whole year on ships outside Australia but, because they do not have a permanent residence in a foreign country, are adjudged to be an Australian resident for tax purposes. It does not matter whether they have a local residence or not.

Anybody who is still reading might be interested in my little tax dodge. I worked offshore for many years, on and off. On one occasion my then employer (based in Hong Kong) wanted me to come and manage an R and D project at Bond University, and it was managed in such a way that I was able to remain non-resident for tax purposes. I did have to pay local tax on local earnings, but my investment portfolio remained untaxed, offshore.

 

[Braveheart81]

@wamberal

Major changes to the taxation of foreign income and Australian tax residents being taxed on their worldwide income started on 1 July 2008.

Many of the arrangements that worked prior to that no longer work and sportsmen such as Rafter would be far more likely to remain an Australian resident taxpayer today than they were previously.

 

[wamberal]

@wamberal

Major changes to the taxation of foreign income and Australian tax residents being taxed on their worldwide income started on 1 July 2008.

Many of the arrangements that worked prior to that no longer work and sportsmen such as Rafter would be far more likely to remain an Australian resident taxpayer today than they were previously.

I should keep up with all this (I am a CPA, believe it or not) but I have lost interest since I retired. I do read the CPA journal "In The Black", but that's it.

I did read or hear a snippet from an interview with the lovely Bec Hewitt who, when asked if they planned to return to live in Oz when Lleyton retired, said something to the effect that they were very well settled in Bermuda, or the Bahamas, or wherever they live now. I automatically assumed that this answer was the answer that their tax accountant had given them for questions like this. Maybe it is the actual truth!

 

[Braveheart81]

I did read or hear a snippet from an interview with the lovely Bec Hewitt who, when asked if they planned to return to live in Oz when Lleyton retired, said something to the effect that they were very well settled in Bermuda, or the Bahamas, or wherever they live now. I automatically assumed that this answer was the answer that their tax accountant had given them for questions like this. Maybe it is the actual truth!

That is quite likely to be the case. As with a lot of things like this, intention is very important and little bits of documentary evidence such as this can end up having significant weight when push comes to shove.

The ATO has been pushing a lot of residency cases in the last couple of years and have been winning most of them. Even people who have spent three years or more overseas with only infrequent trips back to Australia have lost their claims of being a non-resident taxpayer.

 

[wamberal]

Even people who have spent three years or more overseas with only infrequent trips back to Australia have lost their claims of being a non-resident taxpayer.

Looking back on my working life, it is obvious how radically things have changed. My first overseas stint was for a couple of years. I came back to Oz when that did not work out (I was working in London, and was made redundant during a recession). Then, after seven years back here, I took a job in Hong Kong. Four years later I headed home again, and joined a local computer services firm which was taken over three years later, I was again made redundant. This time I took a contract with Price Waterhouse (as they were then) in Thailand. Four years. Back to Oz for a twelve month stint. Then back off-shore until I retired, 10 years. That period was punctuated by a spell back in Oz, working as a non-resident, having been seconded by my Hong Kong employer.

To top it all off, at the end of that contract I did some volunteer work in the Pacific, maintaining my non-resident status!

The whole time that I worked off-shore I was a non-resident for Australian income tax purposes. Never had a problem then or now (and I have tested it by selling shares that I acquired before my eventual permanent return, and only paid capital gains tax as from that date).

 

[TOCC]

so..... about those ideas for Australian Rugby

 

[wamberal]

so... about those ideas for Australian Rugby

1. Start winning.
2. Start scoring tries.
3. Repeat steps 1 and 2.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

The purpose of this thread is:

Imagine you are ARU CEO for a day.

Considering the threat GWS, the second Sydney AFL team has on rugby heartlands.

What things would you do to improve rugby in this city and country?

Post your ideas and discussions below.

We have 580 posts (and counting) of advice and comment on what to do about Kurtley Beale's wardrobe and his dress sense, and only 200+ pieces of advice on what we would do if we were The Pulveriser for a day.

Billy P has been in charge for a while now and has made some changes in his time. He has picked up and ran with some of the previous suggestions from this thread. Coincidence, common sense or does he have the staff and interns trawl Gaggerland forums for ideas?

Resurrecting and refocusing the thread. What advice can we pass on to the ARU staff snooping on here?

Demystify the Pathway to Gold. Far too many stakeholders with vested and self interest are controlling the traffic on the pathway.

Sort out the basket case of political intrigue and nest feathering that is NSW Rugby administration - all levels from Junior village club to NSW RU.

While Australian Rugby (Wallabies and Super Franchise) earns all the money, Rugby in Australia (community grass roots rugby) needs a strategy to maintain numbers involved, otherwise there will be no one interested in handing over their hard earned money for Australian Rugby (tickets, merch, Pay TV, corporate snouting packages). Elite development is all well and good, but there is a certain quality about quantity. Get more kids playing the game, and keep kids in the game.

Do whatever it takes to fill stadiums for televised games, particularly the stands in shot from the main halfway cameras.

Get General Sir Peter Cosgrove to find the toughest meanest hardest arse former SAS Sergeant Major with a heart of gold and appoint them Wallaby Manager. One of their PTI's may be a useful addition to the S&C team as well, not to mention arranging a consultancy deal with some of the SAS psychologists.

Extend the contract of Michael Jeh and broaden his terms of engagement.

If you don't want to take the game out of NSW and QLD elite private schools, take the game to the elite girls private schools. Get them playing rugby 7's by whatever means necessary. Don't ignore 1/2 the population.

Public Schools. Catholic Schools. Sydney's West.

Winning some Tests would be useful, but you already know that.

 

[mxyzptlk]

If you don't want to take the game out of NSW and QLD elite private schools, take the game to the elite girls private schools. Get them playing rugby 7's by whatever means necessary. Don't ignore 1/2 the population.

Public Schools. Catholic Schools. Sydney's West.

The public/private thing is interesting, because it seems like it's still more of an issue in Australia than other places. A few years back I saw a discussion with a union player and a league player in England about the split, both in their later 20's, and they said the class distinctions each game used to carry don't really hold anymore, at least not in England and not in the same way as before (at least they didn't notice it in their careers). There must be some residual class distinction between the codes, but it doesn't seem nearly as strong or built up there today as it does in Australia. The media isn't as tribal, either; Brian Moore regularly features league interviews on his rugby radio show on Talk Sport, and Sky features both union and league.

I'm looking in from the outside, so I'm an idiot when it comes to this, but what would you say the general ratio of rugby in private vs public schools in Australia is compared to other first-tier rugby nations? Is there more rugby in public schools in NZ, England, Wales, Ireland, France, South Africa, etc., percentage-wise, than in Australia? Less? About the same?

In the U.S. we have almost no rugby in schools, certainly not public schools, so any would be welcome. But again, I'm an idiot when it comes to this, so I'm not even sure if the ratio of private schools to public schools is about the same in Australia, if there are significantly more public schools (which I'm assuming), the ratio of private schools to public schools in those other countries, or why the Poms mean something entirely different when they say "public school" than the rest of the world.

I guess another question would be if the sports on offer depends on where you're at. If you're a kid in a public high school in South Australia, are you only going to be able to play Aussie Rules in school, or would you have a choice between that, rugby and league? Or are your choices limited by first geography, and second whether you're at a private or public school?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I hope I'm not in the wrong thread . The ARU should have a calendar on its website to display when and where training clinics , public appearances are to be conducted at schools , rugby clubs , shopping centres etc where there is Wallaby participation AND or where Super Rugby / NRC players do the same . I was most impressed with the Rebels Website entry on its Regional Roadshow Clinic efforts tomorrow at Ballarat , Geelong & Shepparton for 6yrs - 18 yrs . Possibly the ARU could link the calendar entry to the Registration page on the Rebels website . The ARU would be seen to be interacting with the grassroots and give the wider rugby community more of a sense of purpose and involvement in the game as a whole . I think it would provide a valuable link to help break down the elite levels of the game to grass roots . I , living in Sydney would be interested to see how the other Australian Super/NRC teams are spreading the game to their constituents (or not) . The pathway seems clear , there are a lot of good things happening out there , we just need to make the most of these marketing , coaching events to attract more engagement from the current and potential fan base .

This suggestion from @HighPlainsDrifter probably deserves to get some oxygen in this thread as well as where it was originally posted.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Rupert Guinness in the SMH writes:
"After its annual general meeting in Sydney on Thursday, the Australian Rugby Union announced that the game's supporters and community will be asked for feedback on where and how the game should improve. That feedback will be considered as part of the ARU's planned five-year strategy and investment program to address issues troubling the game in Australia."

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...er-in-another-golden-era-20150420-1mp7sv.html

WIll someone tell the ARU to read this thread, or can @Gagger land a fancy consultancy deal with ARU?

 

[HighPlainsDrifter]

I waded through the 2014 annual report ...not a bad read , however I can't help feeling we may be missing the point on engagement with the grass roots (in particular state schools)_ . I would love to see a breakdown of clinics and visits by Wallaby , Super 15 players & NRC , coaching staff etc to all schools and junior clubs in a year ...only then can we really address in a serious fashion the realities of growing the game bottom up . I suspect that with a universe of say at least 350 stakeholders at these levels and competencies in a professional environment why we can't co-ordinate say 5 development days pa to junior and schools rugby ?...not a bad sales force when you think about it . At a stretch you may be able to rope in a local club rep as well who may be sacrificing time from a working week . The theory would have a Wallaby , Super 15 , Sevens , NRC and Club man attend a session at a school / Junior Club with a member of the coaching staff to supervise the session . The exercise should not be viewed as an expense - it should be viewed as an investment in the future of the game . I suppose the message is to provide a clear and tangible demonstration of a pathway for the youth and parents to contemplate embracing to what ever level or commitment that works for them .