ISA Rugby 2012

[lily]

Some of you are so in the dark.

 

[stonecutter]

Neutral observer at the Trinity v St Pats match last Saturday. Great match and atmosphere with St Pats scoring 3 tries to 2, but losing 17-15 with the last play of the match. Just stating out there that a few St Pats boys may run there Oakhill counterparts very close for an ISA position. I look forward to when the 2 centers Peter seman and JP bouelham play te Oakhill centers. Also Jeff markus the no 10. In the forwards the very sharp no.7 Josh Toweel, who scored a sensational try v Trinity, beating a couple and driving 3 over early in te match
. Throw in fullback Goss and aggresive second rower Conner and you have a great match up coming.

I think all ISA followers are pleased to see the success of our other associated schools against CAS and GPS opponents. It's not healthy to have one or two schools dominate a competition over a long period of time and a competion with 8 genuine contenders is the ideal situation if possible, just look at the problems with the GPS and how they are having to deal with the High and Grammar issues. I doubt any true rugby supporter would enjoy the demise of past worthy opponents as we are seeing there.

However, as a neutral observer I'll try to explain the history behind my previous post. Throughout the current year 12 age groups, Augustines and Oakhill have easily been the dominant two schools. Augustines were premiers in the 13's followed by Oakhill being undefeated from 14's through to 16's. Last years 1st XV game was won by Augustines in an encouter of the highest quality and this years game is likely to once again determine the winners of the ISA title. While every new season brings with it new suprises it is hard to forget the dominance that these two schools have shown over the last few years against not only ISA opponents but some CAS and GPS as well. As you rightly say St Pat's were very close to beating Trinity but that has to be balanced against the fact that Augustines easily accounted for Waverley who had previously defeated Scots and Oakhill had wins against Barker and Knox.

You may be right that one or two of the other schools could rise up and challenge for the title this year and if so then that is good for the ISA but the origins of the original post was to discuss the players best positioned to represent ISA at this years NSW Schools trials. In my opinion the players nominated have earned the positions through the quality and consitency of performance over the past seasons. Most of them have also been recognised at representative levels through club, district, zone, sydney or state. I also believe that this years crop is a strong chance of pushing for higher numbers of representation in the schools state sides but to achieve this they have to be afforded the best chance by playing with the best players around them. As you may now be aware I've been watching this age group developing over time and yes I recognise some of the names you put forward (Markus) and while some could turn into fine players in their own right I've not seen anything in the past to alter my opinion.

With the ISA trials scheduled for next week you can only hope that it isn't the usual shitfight where over a hundred players of various talents get in each others way. How anyone can justify this set up as identifying the best players is beyond me but it is the ISA method of choice. I just hope that the best players are recognised for the consistency of their performances in competition games and not have selections based on the ability to get hot for 5 minutes in a 25 minute trial. I have great faith in the players but not the system and will look forward to seeing if the improvements in the St Pat's side hold up over the season ahead.

 

[Schools Rugby Tribune]

Stannies horror run at the Sanix continues with fourth straight loss. Must now beat Incheon (Korea) to avoid finishing stone last in the tournament.

 

[Budgie]

From the programme:
St Pats 1st XV
1. A Chalker
2. M Edwards
3. P Agliozzo
4. C Grealish
5. J McFadden
6. R Kisner
7. J Taweel
8. M Van Diggelen
9. L Tannous
10. J Markus
11. L O'Brien
12. J-P Boumelhem
13. P Semaan
14. T Brady
15. J Goss

St Andrew's 1st XV
1. F Talanoa
2. S Takau
3. B Yole
4. J Bauchet
5. A Kell
6. M Cunningham
7. D Moore
8. F Motu
9. O Hui
10. C Tait
11. B Roach
12. Z Alvarado
13. B Milross
14. S Toohey
15. C McGrath

St Pius XIII 1st XV
1. C Arciuli
2. M Brackenrig
3. D Butel
4. B Brooke
5. J Tysoe
6. B O'Donnell
7. J Ward
8. S Reidy
9. H Toohey
10. B Bury
11. E Manson
12. D Price
13. A Maikin
14. A Collum
15. H Staples

 

[Country Kid]

SRT @ #63

Ouch! thats a sobering thought about our Aussie school rep on the international stage

 

[JC Rugby101]

I think all ISA followers are pleased to see the success of our other associated schools against CAS and GPS opponents. It's not healthy to have one or two schools dominate a competition over a long period of time and a competion with 8 genuine contenders is the ideal situation if possible, just look at the problems with the GPS and how they are having to deal with the High and Grammar issues. I doubt any true rugby supporter would enjoy the demise of past worthy opponents as we are seeing there.

I'll differ to your knowledge based on last year. Most of the boys I mentioned Under 16s 2011 and did beat oakhill comfortably I'm told. Went down to watch st pats 2nds play st pius 1st XV as a cus playing. Pius winning with last kick of the match 13-12. St pats made light work of st Andrews afterwards with the same key players dominating again. Joshua Taweel, the number 7, outstanding with another try and setting up the first After cutting through the defensive line. The two centers, Peter Semaan 2 great tries and jp Boumelhem we're again very strong in defense and attack.

However, as a neutral observer I'll try to explain the history behind my previous post. Throughout the current year 12 age groups, Augustines and Oakhill have easily been the dominant two schools. Augustines were premiers in the 13's followed by Oakhill being undefeated from 14's through to 16's. Last years 1st XV game was won by Augustines in an encouter of the highest quality and this years game is likely to once again determine the winners of the ISA title. While every new season brings with it new suprises it is hard to forget the dominance that these two schools have shown over the last few years against not only ISA opponents but some CAS and GPS as well. As you rightly say St Pat's were very close to beating Trinity but that has to be balanced against the fact that Augustines easily accounted for Waverley who had previously defeated Scots and Oakhill had wins against Barker and Knox.

You may be right that one or two of the other schools could rise up and challenge for the title this year and if so then that is good for the ISA but the origins of the original post was to discuss the players best positioned to represent ISA at this years NSW Schools trials. In my opinion the players nominated have earned the positions through the quality and consitency of performance over the past seasons. Most of them have also been recognised at representative levels through club, district, zone, sydney or state. I also believe that this years crop is a strong chance of pushing for higher numbers of representation in the schools state sides but to achieve this they have to be afforded the best chance by playing with the best players around them. As you may now be aware I've been watching this age group developing over time and yes I recognise some of the names you put forward (Markus) and while some could turn into fine players in their own right I've not seen anything in the past to alter my opinion.

With the ISA trials scheduled for next week you can only hope that it isn't the usual shitfight where over a hundred players of various talents get in each others way. How anyone can justify this set up as identifying the best players is beyond me but it is the ISA method of choice. I just hope that the best players are recognised for the consistency of their performances in competition games and not have selections based on the ability to get hot for 5 minutes in a 25 minute trial. I have great faith in the players but not the system and will look forward to seeing if the improvements in the St Pat's side hold up over the season ahead.

 

[JC Rugby101]

No 10 markus a strong, classy 2nd half and Peter probably best on ground

 

[no9]

I'll differ to your knowledge based on last year. Most of the boys I mentioned Under 16s 2011 and did beat oakhill comfortably I'm told. Went down to watch st pats 2nds play st pius 1st XV as a cus playing. Pius winning with last kick of the match 13-12. St pats made light work of st Andrews afterwards with the same key players dominating again. Joshua Taweel, the number 7, outstanding with another try and setting up the first After cutting through the defensive line. The two centers, Peter Semaan 2 great tries and jp Boumelhem we're again very strong in defense and attack.

I like your belief in these guys and your'e right with the 2011 U16's result. Pat's did beat Oakhill in a close game until a late try sealed it. But the bad news is that Oakhill towelled Pat's in the firsts and about 12 of those guys are back again in 2012.
Maybe next year things will change but for this year I'll back the guys who have delivered before. Will be interesting to see if Pat's can stand up against the GPS over the next couple of weeks too.

 

[I like to watch]

In my opinion the players nominated have earned the positions through the quality and consitency of performance over the past seasons. Most of them have also been recognised at representative levels through club, district, zone, sydney or state.
With the ISA trials scheduled for next week you can only hope that it isn't the usual shitfight where over a hundred players of various talents get in each others way. How anyone can justify this set up as identifying the best players is beyond me but it is the ISA method of choice. I just hope that the best players are recognised for the consistency of their performances in competition games and not have selections based on the ability to get hot for 5 minutes in a 25 minute trial. I have great faith in the players but not the system and will look forward to seeing if the improvements in the St Pat's side hold up over the season ahead.

The fairest way to select a side is to match up the contenders and pick the best performed on the day.
Selecting sides based on scrapbooks is flawed IMO.
The current system seems to favour students from your School, why change it?

 

[Done that]

My information is that Marcus has signed to play league next year with Parramatta.

 

[RugbyTears]

I like your belief in these guys and your'e right with the 2011 U16's result. Pat's did beat Oakhill in a close game until a late try sealed it. But the bad news is that Oakhill towelled Pat's in the firsts and about 12 of those guys are back again in 2012.
Maybe next year things will change but for this year I'll back the guys who have delivered before. Will be interesting to see if Pat's can stand up against the GPS over the next couple of weeks too.

Have to agree with "No9" - benchmarking last year's Oakhill 16As results is probably pointless because their 1st XV this year has only one player from last year's 16s. But have to agree Pats got good backs this year -- been a good batch coming thru since they were in the 14s.

 

[RugbyTears]

SRT @ #63

Ouch! thats a sobering thought about our Aussie school rep on the international stage

Does anyone know how the Australian slot in the Sanix Tournament gets invited or selected ? Or is it a case of which ever school has the funds to send 22 boys to Japan for 2 weeks ?

 

[International Badboy]

good to see Andrews #10 Tait.
last time I saw the kid play it was a 15 E match for joeys, seems he has been working hard

 

[no9]

The fairest way to select a side is to match up the contenders and pick the best performed on the day.
Selecting sides based on scrapbooks is flawed IMO.
The current system seems to favour students from your School, why change it?

I have attended the last few ISA trial days and while I'm also an Oakhill supporter I have to agree with SC that they are a crap fight. Schools simply send too many players who realistically don't stand a chance of selection. How do teams that regularly get beaten by 40 + margins send up to 10 players and thats not to mention the 2nd division players. I'd love to see a side containing the best from Oakhill and Augustines taking on the other associations and going on results this year they would easily account for CAS. This would give recognition to the hard work these guys have put into dismissing the myth that ISA is a poor cousin of the GPS/CAS.

I haven't done enough drugs to contemplate ISA changing the policy but CAS and CHS select their teams from the early rounds of the comp or from the regional carnival. In this case I'd support your view because it is player on player in a team environment where there is some continuity and combination. The current system of lobbing guys into a different coloured jersey and expecting them to play to the highest levels is hit and miss at best and farcical at its worst although last year the RED trial team seemed to have 14 or 15 Augustines players in it.

GPS seem to pick their teams on reputation and previous form and it appears to work for them when they celebrate NSW selections due in some part to others selection mistakes.

Schools rugby has its cycles and player talent may shift to other schools within the ISA and if so then I hope those boys would get rewarded for their past efforts as you would expect this years players should even if the majority of them come from the Augustines and Oakhill teams. Ask the players who they want standing beside them in a Representative game and the honest answer would be the quality players from the other team because they know that it gives them a better chance at higher selection.

 

[Heally]

Well I suppose all will be revealed after today's trials in terms of an ISA team.

The trial process in many sports is flawed when there are large volumes of players showing up. The problems arise when there is an over representation or under representation of selectors from one particular competition. eg ISA 1, ISA 2. Having said that, because a player is part of a team getting done by 40+ points each week does not necessarily mean that he is not capable of making a rep team. The issues occur when there is no forward scouting across competittions and I am lead to believe that in the ISA Firsts selections there has been quite a bit of scouting and player history taken into account. It does however as I said remain to be seen in the selections.

So once you see or hear any news of selections I would be very interested to see if ISA can beat the other competitions this year. Judging by some results I have seen already, if selections are per form, then ISA should do very well in the comp.

It is also good to see that there may be an improvement in some of the smaller Rugby schools. I have mentiioned in previous postst that althoug a team is srtrong in U16, it does not always translate into the Opens age bracket there are several guys that are 18 and already 110kg plus in the forwards and in the backs in some cases who are proven First XV players and it is a fair step up in strength and speed from an U16 age.

Any way.. glad to hear of any selections...

 

[no9]

Well I suppose all will be revealed after today's trials in terms of an ISA team.
Having said that, because a player is part of a team getting done by 40+ points each week does not necessarily mean that he is not capable of making a rep team. The issues occur when there is no forward scouting across competittions and I am lead to believe that in the ISA Firsts selections there has been quite a bit of scouting and player history taken into account. It does however as I said remain to be seen in the selections....

I agree if the school sends the 1 or 2 players who are capable of making it and not 8 more with them. Even Augustines and Oakhill are getting in on the act by sending 2nd graders. What happens if a player who can't make his school 1st XV makes ISA. Does that speak volumes about the school coaches not recognising a talent that they see every week or the ISA selection process. If what you say about forward planning is correct then there is a possibility that they'll get it right but I've also sat in selection meetings where a selector has his own agenda or wants to posture about his ability more.

Fingers crossed they get it right.

 

[Heally]

Totally agree no9 with the point you are making. I can understand that Augustines, Oakhill and maybe others may send their seconds because in many cases the 2nd XV of the better performing schools would beat the First XV from some of the other schools and this also flows down to the individual player as well. In selections there are varying factors to be considered as you would know and much of this may have to do with coaches own agendas but you hope it has to do with the mix of the team.

From a selectors point of view , if all you see is second tier competition each week and a player stands out in that competition they will inherently back that player for representative selection. The perception of the ability of the player in the eyes of the coach is slightly tainted due to the standard of the competition and it is not until they are put up against the monsters that you see running around that their true vaule and ability are displayed.

I am sure that the selectors have seen many of these guys before and will put a high standard of palyer on the park, not one who is a standout in a second tier competition.

If anyone has any further thoughtts or guesses at selections, please post them so we can get aflavour of what you may have gleaned from the trials today.

 

[Jazzman]

which of the ISA schools went on tour last holidays and how succesfull were they ?

 

[Pedro]

Hey Bob, Sanix is by invitation only. There is an expectation that the school be in the top five. Stannies has very close links with their Japanese sister school Nanzan. South Africa are questioning why they sent a 34th "ranked" school "Monnas" but they are more concerned with their own home competition. NZ run a national competition the previous year and the winners go to Sanix next year. Parents and students pay for all but accommodation and meals and transfers at Sanix, so it costs many thousands of dollars to tour. Not all Stannies 1st XV toured and some stood up from the seconds like Jake Ferguson to become a definite 1st XV player after the experience. Copy and paste this site to see South Africa's rankings.
http://www.rugby15.co.za/2012/04/south-african-top-45-school-rugby-rankings-21-april-2012/
No Stannies players in the ISA suggestion list, yes they lost their trial matches against bigger schools, but their seconds team performed extremely well and their players have had the chance to learn a lot. I believe every ISA player should be selected on current performance. Everyone agrees its to all schools' advantage to have a strong competition, so could someone please explain to me how schools like Stannies, St Gregs, Kinros, would improve from not having ISA 1st rep experience? Through your own admissions St Augustine's and Oakhill need strong competition to stay strong, so how does denying Stannies, St Gregs and Kinros 1st ISA rep level experience achieve anything towards developing a strong ISA comp? If anything, they need the representative experience to be more capable competitors, so all ISA schools can win that one. May common sense prevail.

 

[I like to watch]

Pedro, the ISA trials were on yesterday and I believe no Stannies kids trialled.
You can't expect that a no show is selected can you?
Be interested to see the final selections.
Stonecutter, I think your wish list on selections were too optimistic.Oakhill will probably get 3 players in the pack, in the backline only your fullback stood out.
The centres and wingers selections are a lottery. The 9 is sewn up by Natoli.The 10 was shaded by the Auggies kid.
St Augs in the same boat IMO, 3 in the pack,the 2 halves then probably their strong running winger, with maybe the 12 as well.
Plenty of Oakhill & Augs players in the two's,
As usual some of the lower ranked schools brought way too many kids, making it much harder for selectors than it should be.