Omar Comin'
Chilla Wilson (44)
You could say that about so many players. Japan's best front row is good, clearly dominating Samoa for example. It's a product of both coaching and their talent / physical capabilities. You can't perform at world cup level without both. Horie in particular has been one of the top 2 or 3 hookers in the tournament.
Being a smaller team, so long as you're still physically strong actually has some benefits - and we've seen Japan exploit them. They pack their scrum lower than anyone else, which is a big advantage, they tackle very low and take away the power game of bigger ball runners, and their speed and body height at the breakdown is excellent. There's no way for bigger players to match their body height while supporting their weight and so Japan can hold the ball for long periods.
RugbyFuture
Lord Logo
this thread has suddenly gotten on the verge of incredibly racist haha
T
TOCC
Guest
Japans scrum was very good at the RWC, their front row matched it with other test teams and stood up against some of the best in the world, are you really suggesting the front don't deserve credit, just the coaching?
How is the improvement in the Japanese front row any different to the improvement of the Australian front row? In both circumstances the coaching improved the final product, but the coaches still need the raw talent and ability of the players to be there in the first place.
Like Omar said you cant perform at RWC level without both good coaching and the talent/physical capabilities of the players.
qwerty51
Stirling Mortlock (74)
What does this have to do with the original discussion that MCHS had a fair point regarding the Japanese physiques?
You just agreed, that coaching is the main point of difference in the scrum, based on Australian's turnaround.
I never once criticised foreign players playing for Japan, not sure why Omar or upthereds brought that up. I simply backed up MHCS's point with the fact that the best Japanese pack was made up of 5/8 Kiwis and not players with Japanese heritage so any posts claiming Japan's RWC success discredited the point wasn't really fair. Given that I don't believe they are any Japan-qualified foreigners available, there was no choice but to select Japanese front rowers.
It would be interesting see how they would've gone with 8/8 players in pack with full Japanese heritage.
You just agreed, that coaching is the main point of difference in the scrum, based on Australian's turnaround.
I never once criticised foreign players playing for Japan, not sure why Omar or upthereds brought that up. I simply backed up MHCS's point with the fact that the best Japanese pack was made up of 5/8 Kiwis and not players with Japanese heritage so any posts claiming Japan's RWC success discredited the point wasn't really fair. Given that I don't believe they are any Japan-qualified foreigners available, there was no choice but to select Japanese front rowers.
It would be interesting see how they would've gone with 8/8 players in pack with full Japanese heritage.
T
TOCC
Guest
Qwerty, you said the whole forward pack would have been non-japanese if there were foreign props scrummaging in Japan and then said that the current Japanese front row is a product of coaching and not personnel.
Omar made the point that you can't perform at the RWC without good coaching and good personnel, Japans front row and scrum stood up against the best and deserve credit for what they did, their performance is not purely due to coaching, they have displayed that they have the physicality and ability to perform at test level.
Omar made the point that you can't perform at the RWC without good coaching and good personnel, Japans front row and scrum stood up against the best and deserve credit for what they did, their performance is not purely due to coaching, they have displayed that they have the physicality and ability to perform at test level.
T
TOCC
Guest
Im assuming 'full Japanese heritage' means players who were born there.
It would be interesting to see how many countries in the worlds were to go if they were only able to select 'full heritage' players...Italy, Wales, Scotland, Australia and Japan all have between 9 and 12 foreign born players in their squads.
Marcelo
Ken Catchpole (46)
Good to see u in a good mood before the game. Then it will be sad 4 u
At least then u have the next Super Rugby season to celebrate victories. Ohhhh, u are a Rebels supporter, I forgot it. Sorry for that.
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
qwerty51
Stirling Mortlock (74)
They were would be worse, like us, but we would still go alright and win some Tests.
Marcelo
Ken Catchpole (46)
B
Bobby Sands
Guest
Gee, that's a promising video! Thanks for sharing..
Made me feel great about the sport.
Made me feel great about the sport.
kiap
Steve Williams (59)
From the Reds' thread:
Losing one top player isn't a deal beaker but the Reds still have Tui as well, do they not? Other ANZAC teams still have their Japanese test players as well. How many will the Sunwolves have?
If they're not strong in the African conference, the Saffa franchises will wreak a horrible revenge for the Boks' RWC manshaming.
Simply put, if their players aren't up to scratch, Japan shouldn't be there.
The problem with Japan was never going to be about some sort of alleged physical inferiority, it's all about the shittiness of their administration.
I mean, if a bloke would prefer to throw his lot in with the hapless Reds organisation, that's telling you something about Japan.
What the f**k is going on?
Much as I'm happy to see the Reds get a player of his calibre, this calls into question the existence of Japan's team in the competition.
Losing one top player isn't a deal beaker but the Reds still have Tui as well, do they not? Other ANZAC teams still have their Japanese test players as well. How many will the Sunwolves have?
If they're not strong in the African conference, the Saffa franchises will wreak a horrible revenge for the Boks' RWC manshaming.
Simply put, if their players aren't up to scratch, Japan shouldn't be there.
The problem with Japan was never going to be about some sort of alleged physical inferiority, it's all about the shittiness of their administration.
I mean, if a bloke would prefer to throw his lot in with the hapless Reds organisation, that's telling you something about Japan.
What the f**k is going on?
Omar Comin'
Chilla Wilson (44)
It'd be a real shame as Goromaru would probably be the most recognisable player in Japan after the world cup. The SunWolves need players like him, not just to be competitive, but to draw crowds and media interest etc.
dru
Tim Horan (67)
[EDIT: Isn't he FB? Tick.] So he fills a slot we don't really need filling.
dru
Tim Horan (67)
You're right of course. I need to temper expectations of rationality from that mob.
Hoping SunWolves hold it together. We are going to need to give them more than a single season though.
Omar Comin'
Chilla Wilson (44)
The positive for Japan of having guys in other teams is that it will allow them to build more depth for the national team. But those next players have to be good enough to compete and maybe they aren't yet.
From the sounds of it the JRFU really have to make some serious reforms from grassroots through to high performance structures. Eddie Jones didn't seem to think it would happen though.
From the sounds of it the JRFU really have to make some serious reforms from grassroots through to high performance structures. Eddie Jones didn't seem to think it would happen though.
wamberal
Phil Kearns (64)
It is also worth pointing out that it is relatively easy to get Australian citizenship, it is nearly impossible to get Japanese citizenship if you are just a nobody.