Japan Super Rugby team

[Joeleee]

Absolutely - but I wonder about the likelihood of reaching 20% in Japan. From my experience there, I do find it hard to imagine young Japanese people jumping on the rugby bandwagon.

Would love to see it hit the big time there, but this method of throwing a Japanese team into Super Rugby isn't the way to go in my view. it's obviously smaller in Korea, but ideally I reckon they'd be better off focusing on the Asian region by extending the current Japanese competition to include a Korean side with a view to slow expansion.

Fair enough, you've probably (read: definitely) got a better idea of the culture there than I do.

I'm pretty excited to see the Japanese up against top competition on a regular basis. I think, though, that the most exciting thing they could potentially do is get some big marquee signings. If the interest in the side does build up there, and they can start to afford the sorts of salaries their clubs give, I'd love to see them attract someone in the vein of Sergio Parisse, or Steffon Armitage, or someone huge from Europe. That would be quite cool, but that's obviously all a bit of a pipe dream at this stage.

 

[Omar Comin']

That would be ideal - but you don't need a Japanese team in Super Rugby for that to happen. Just look at the big MLB stars from Japan - they almost generate more interest being successful in foreign competitions.

Well Super Rugby is effectively a foreign competition even with 1 Japanese team.

The problem with Japan's domestic league is that it's company based. And unless you work for one of the companies why would you support them? Basically it's never going to become more popular. I think the path for increasing rugby's popularity in Japan is through the national team and Super Rugby.

And if this Japanese team is a reasonable success it will open the door to an eventual Asian Super Rugby conference. There is already the group that wants to base an Asia-Pacific team in Singapore and the wealthy Hong Kong Union have said in the past they would be interested in Super Rugby if they were part of an Australasian division (rather than in a South African conference).

 

[Bring Back The Ruck]

Its company based but those companies are massive in the areas and people still support the local teams.
Baseball in Japan is run in a similar way and those teams are massive.
Rugby could follow the same trajectory and be just as big in 10/15 years or so.
I have only been to games in Tokyo but most baseball games at the Dome sell out and the Yakult Swallows games (forget name of stadium) are pretty busy (ground it right next to rugby ground).
Given they play so many more games and on week nights etc the idea that a single rugby franchise wouldnt do well is fairly pessimistic at least.

In an ideal world with no money issues we should have had Argies join SA conference (with the extra team)
A PI team join NZ (home games played in NZ/AUS/FIJI/SAMOA/TONGA)
and the Japanese join us here.
Then get a few teams from Japan in the NRC to help them develop

 

[Omar Comin']

I know baseball is company based but it's the biggest sport in the country with much greater tradition. My understanding is that it isn't growing though while soccer has substantially. I've also read that soccer didn't really take off in Japan until they created the J League - which moved away from company based sides towards independent, community based teams.

 

[Bring Back The Ruck]

Soccer teams in the J-league changed their names to areas yes but they are still owned and sponsored mostly by the companies that owned the JSL teams.
Newly formed teams also strongly identify with the major companies of the area.
Its a different mind set in Japan, no team is truly independent and there is nothing wrong with that

 

[TahDan]

Its company based but those companies are massive in the areas and people still support the local teams.
Baseball in Japan is run in a similar way and those teams are massive.
Rugby could follow the same trajectory and be just as big in 10/15 years or so.
I have only been to games in Tokyo but most baseball games at the Dome sell out and the Yakult Swallows games (forget name of stadium) are pretty busy (ground it right next to rugby ground).
Given they play so many more games and on week nights etc the idea that a single rugby franchise wouldnt do well is fairly pessimistic at least.

In an ideal world with no money issues we should have had Argies join SA conference (with the extra team)
A PI team join NZ (home games played in NZ/AUS/FIJI/SAMOA/TONGA)
and the Japanese join us here.
Then get a few teams from Japan in the NRC to help them develop

Fair points. And yes, in Japan the whole company team thing is less damaging than you'd think - Japan is the only country in the developed world where people have an almost universally positive view of their multinationals.

I will be interested to see how it all goes, but from what I've heard at the odd AJS event I've attended - one specifically targeting the Rugby World Cup - the JRFU have been pretty poorly organised, and haven't really had much direction since winning their World Cup bid.

The recent news that the new national stadium won't be ready for the World Cup is also a poor look (although to be fair the design they'd agreed to for it was pretty ridiculously opulent for a country for a debt to GDP ration over 200%)

 

[Getwithme]

The Japanese side would hopefully at least consist of
1. Keita Inagaki
2. Shota Horie
3.
4.
5.
6.Hendrik Tui
7.
8.

Michael Leitch​

9. Fumi Tanaka
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.Akihito Yamada
15.Kotaro Matsushima

An international Prop, along with at least 1 lock and 10 is most likely needed

 

[TahDan]

Be interesting to see what name they come up with. They've opened it to the public for submissions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Marcelo]

A fair question haha.

Things are pretty depressing for Rugby in Australia right now, but in Japan it just isn't on the radar.

To give you an idea of how informed about Rugby the average Japanese is, most of my office think Australian Football is "Rugby."

There is one IT guy that absolutely loves the game, but the rest have no clue.

The "genetics" of the Japanese isn't the issue btw - on average they're shorter of course, but if the game was the country's national sport, you'd have all the exceptions to that generalisation on display - because there are more than a few very tall Japanese in their 128 odd million population. I played with a couple guys around the 190cm mark at my rather tiny uni there when I was on exchange.

When I talk of genetics, I'm talking about the average. Of course there are tall people in Japan, as there is also in China, such as Yao Ming. But the average Japanese is smaller than the average European or the average Aussie, that's the truth according Adidas size chart. This doesn't mean that there aren't tall people in Japan.

The Japanese are very very bad for the sport. According to the polls I've read, soccer is the second most popular sport in the country but they have never excelled in soccer.

They were defeated by Paraguay in the FIFA WC 2010.

Do you know Paraguay?? It's a little country from South America:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraguay

Paraguay is an underdeveloped and small country from Latin America, very very poor. And they beat Japan in their second most popular sport.

 

[kiap]

When I talk of genetics, I'm talking about the average.

Talk on "average genetics" and drawing sporting conclusions from it can cross a line if not careful.

Hasn't reached that point so far but here's the thing: It's not relevant to Super Rugby anyway.

There'll be numerous imports, just like at the Rebels and the Force. That's part of the reason we've got them in the comp - it's another possible outlet for our players and not in France.

So let's hear no more of this genetic profiling.

They were defeated by Paraguay in the FIFA WC 2010.

This is also irrelevant. Brazil playing "o jogo bonito" lost to Paraguay last year.

Japan may not have excelled in soccer but they are a handy enough team outside the Top 20, about on par with (or slightly ahead of) Australia. They also have an overall winning record against Paraguay.

But, as said, this is irrelevant to Super Rugby. All of it.

The real concerns with the Japanese side will be the competence (or otherwise) of the governing body & management, the geographical logistics, and the longer-term commercial aspect of the team's participation. This should be the focus.

Pretty much the same as for most Super sides.

 

[Marcelo]

Talk on "average genetics" and drawing sporting conclusions from it can cross a line if not careful.

Hasn't reached that point so far but here's the thing: It's irrelevant to Super Rugby anyway.

There'll be numerous imports, just like at the Rebels and the Force. That's part of the reason we've got them in the comp - it's another possible outlet for our players and not in France.

So let's hear no more of this genetic profiling.


This is also irrelevant. Brazil playing "o jogo bonito" lost to Paraguay last year.

Japan may not have excelled in soccer but they are a handy enough team outside the Top 20, about on par with (or slightly ahead of) Australia. They also have an overall winning record against Paraguay.

But, as said, this is irrelevant to Super Rugby. All of it.

The real concerns with the Japanese side will be the competence (or otherwise) of the governing body & management, the geographical logistics, and the longer term commercial aspect of the team's participation. This should be the focus.

Pretty much the same as for most Super sides.

Brazil in soccer ATM is like the Wallabies in rugby. A team with great history but with little present. Japan in soccer has no past, present or future

 

[kiap]

Brazil in soccer ATM is like the Wallabies in rugby. A team with great history but with little present. Japan in soccer has no past, present or future

Brazil are still #6 in the World. Paraguay have also in the past beaten Argentina (currently #1) and Colombia (currently #4).

But regardless you're missing the point:

It's irrelevant to Super Rugby.

 

[Marcelo]

Brazil are still #6 in the World. Paraguay have also in the past beaten Argentina (currently #1) and Colombia (currently #4).

But regardless you're missing the point:

It's irrelevant to Super Rugby.

Yeah, and Wallabies are still #5 in the world

 

[kiap]

Need to win this weekend to stay there, tho.

 

[Slim 293]

But the average Japanese is smaller than the average European or the average Aussie, that's the truth according Adidas size chart. This doesn't mean that there aren't tall people in Japan.

Yes, Adidas holds the official international guide for racial measurements...........

 

[southsider]

Talk on "average genetics" and drawing sporting conclusions from it can cross a line if not careful.

Hasn't reached that point so far but here's the thing: It's not relevant to Super Rugby anyway.

There'll be numerous imports, just like at the Rebels and the Force. That's part of the reason we've got them in the comp - it's another possible outlet for our players and not in France.

So let's hear no more of this genetic profiling.

Dont be such a wank about it, generally speaking japanese people are small compared to a world average, same as generally speaking islander people are bigger than the world average which makes them such great rugby players. It is what it is, of course there are thousands upon thousands of exemptions to the rule but if we are using Japan as the example, even the big guys that they do have are outliers amongst their team mates and opposition meaning they are never put in a physically competitive environment and do not gain the experience that they would playing in other regions of the world and are less likely to develop and succeed as professional athletes. So yes it is very relevant, the Japanese union will have imports but they also need to rely on locals as the base of their team and whether you like it or not the general size of japanese men works against them in a pro rugby environment whether its the players personally or their development through competition during their formative years.


In saying that i think so long as japan is kept in super rugby they will eventually become competitive and be a good inclusion into the tournament both from a financial perspective as well as bringing a slightly different style of football to the competition.

 

[kiap]

Dont be such a wank

<yada yada yada>

In saying that i think so long as japan is kept in super rugby they will eventually become competitive and be a good inclusion into the tournament both from a financial perspective as well as bringing a slightly different style of football to the competition.

So in your own words, "they will eventually become competitive". Bully for you. And them.

I'm still predicting they will be the worst performed team over many seasons (if they get to the start line). All of your guff is really the least of their concerns. Travel will be a killer for a start.

But that's okay, someone's got to finish last. May as well be them instead of one of ours.

 

[southsider]

So in your own words, "they will eventually become competitive". Bully for you. And them.

I'm predicting they will be the worst performed team over many seasons (if they get to the start line). All of your irrelevant guff is the least of their concerns.

Someone's got to finish last. May as well be them instead of one of ours.

Sorry thought I'd point out something a bit different that they may have to deal with rather than "ummm they need good management annnnd ummmmm they need to travel well ummm and also need to make sure they are financial secure" like no shit they need to do that and if you can't see that the small stature of Japanese people can have a negative impact in the overall competitiveness of their professional franchise then you have rocks in your head. Look at tanaka from the highlanders, he has a awesome skill set and a amazing pass but gets bitched in 7 different directions because of his size he is 75kg and 1.66m tall the average Japanese male is roughly 1.71m tall and 67kg. Looking at this he is more or less average height and weight for a Japanese male (I'll consider the extra 8kg is just muscle from being a pro rugby player) but struggles to be physically competitive at super level, like REALLY struggles and this is a full blown international player

 

[kiap]

On what basis do you say they will "eventually become competitive"?

 

[Omar Comin']

On what basis do you say they will "eventually become competitive"?

I'll give you some. The Japanese national team defeated Wales without their Lions players a couple of years ago. They've also beaten Italy recently and got within 2 points of NZ Maori. These are Super Rugby quality teams. Add say 5 or 6 international quality imports to that base and I think they should be a competitive team from the start. I doubt they'll be challenging for the title to begin with but I can see them picking up some wins.

That's of course if they manage to sign players and get everything in order. The biggest challenge will be their travel schedule.