John I Dent Cup - Canberra Competition -

[FTS]

Perhaps at most clubs, but Vikings certainly pays their players..

Just out of curiosity, what legitimate proof do you have that Vikings pay their players? Personally I knew someone closely that played First grade for 5+ years at Vikings, and was not payed a cent. I have heard from people very close to the club that players are not payed, but more looked after very well with employment and accommodation, similar to a lot of clubs. Maybe the incentive of playing with players such as Colby and Christian, exposure to good coaching and facilities is a reason quality new players arrive every year. Of course I can easily see how other clubs hate Vikings, but they built themselves from the ground up all those years ago and are now reaping the benefits. How good would the competition be standard wise if all clubs adopted similar techniques they did and were as financially stable?

 

[Empire]

Well, first hand accounts from 5+ players. If your mate wasn't on the books, he would have been the minority.

It's not a dig at their business acumen - I agree with how they have created a fantastic business to support their Rugby club.

What I dislike is the continual stonewalling by the Vikings when it comes to funding from the ACTRU for poorer members of the JID. It's not my fault that when I was in high school that dodgy elements in the community essentially wasted/embezzled money across a variety of clubs.

I'd far prefer to see leadership from the ACTRU, and see strong, sustainable business plans with appropriate investment into the clubs, so that each can develop training facilities/school programmes and the like in their own areas of influence.

Vikings have plenty of money, however bettering Rugby as a whole in the ACT isn't the key focus, just ongoing Vikings success (either here, or in the Shute Shield). The ACTRU/Brumbies are poor, and just do whatever those who hold the purse strings...

 

[Dave Beat]

Empire, this thread makes it sound like a disaster down the??? With possible room for improvement???

I suggested the following for the benifit of rugy, but Big Tough Guy shot it down in flames???

Note I included ACT, and improving rugby so not sure why it was shot down? Suggested a third tier with an element of the rep teams from the old days, loyalty, origin type format, I am not aware of the structure down in ACT - could there be 2 rep teams.


NSW (below), QLD (?) ACT (below) forming a third teir with club rugby being the curtain raiser to the rep games? Having the clubs support and be involved on game day with their georgraphical rep teams would increase exposure for the game.
NSW
1. The old North Harbour (grade & colts), V
2. The old South Harbour, (grade & colts), origin.
3. NSW Country, (grade & colts),
4. ACT Kookaburra's (can they field 2 rep teams? Grade & Colts).
QLD - not sure if they had an old structure lik the above, could they field 4 teams

Just a thought, BUT, at the end of the Super season, the above kicks in, and with this structure let the super players play for the club of their choice (they may not need to come back to the Shute Shield for the quality rugby).

 

[rugbylover2012]

lets be honest.... every club would pay their players if they had the cash available.... the reality is that vikings have been the only club to properly manage themselves on and off the field. its not their responsibility to carry other clubs. 15 years ago (pretty much) every team had a club. now only queanbeyan and the vikings remain. i duno how wests royals easts managed to lose clubs with pokies... also concerning is how weak some teams may be in the john i dent cup this year!!!!!

 

[Lilmonkeys1114]

Perhaps at most clubs, but Vikings certainly pays their players..

I think you have that very wrong! Vikings don't pay players..............

 

[angrydog]

I think you have that very wrong! Vikings don't pay players..............

When did they stop? They were paying guys match payments up to 15 years ago. No one was on a sign on or contract or anything like that, but players who started or played off the bench for Vikings circa 1997 - 2000 were copping quids of around $150 - $200 each per game. Some of their bigger name players around that time were getting a little more plus things like jobs etc.

 

[angrydog]

I think you have that very wrong! Vikings don't pay players..............

May I add, I dont really have a problem with it but I share the sentiments of empire in that sharing the wealth a little and developing good even competition would serve everyones best interest for the development of rugby in the ACT instead of just those living south of Kambah.

 

[angrydog]

Well, first hand accounts from 5+ players. If your mate wasn't on the books, he would have been the minority.

It's not a dig at their business acumen - I agree with how they have created a fantastic business to support their Rugby club.

What I dislike is the continual stonewalling by the Vikings when it comes to funding from the ACTRU for poorer members of the JID. It's not my fault that when I was in high school that dodgy elements in the community essentially wasted/embezzled money across a variety of clubs.

I'd far prefer to see leadership from the ACTRU, and see strong, sustainable business plans with appropriate investment into the clubs, so that each can develop training facilities/school programmes and the like in their own areas of influence.

Vikings have plenty of money, however bettering Rugby as a whole in the ACT isn't the key focus, just ongoing Vikings success (either here, or in the Shute Shield). The ACTRU/Brumbies are poor, and just do whatever those who hold the purse strings...

I am ageeing with you in numerous posts lately empire...are you sure you went to Eddies, are you really sure??

 

[Lilmonkeys1114]

When did they stop? They were paying guys match payments up to 15 years ago. No one was on a sign on or contract or anything like that, but players who started or played off the bench for Vikings circa 1997 - 2000 were copping quids of around $150 - $200 each per game. Some of their bigger name players around that time were getting a little more plus things like jobs etc.

15 years ago!................. I think alot has changed since that time and I can assure you over the last 5 - 6 years not a cent is paid to players, Yes the Vikings provide jobs to some but that does not come under your "Paying players". They have to work for it, like the rest of us.

 

[Empire]

I am ageeing with you in numerous posts lately empire...are you sure you went to Eddies, are you really sure??

Funnily enough, yes I was. I even came from Queanbeyan.

As for Vikings not 'paying players' - many of the interlopers (the guys who seem to have multiple Australian clubs on their CV's) certainly received top ups in little brown bags. It's actually not the biggest issue - the money on players in relatively small. It's the consistent vetoing of ACTRU funds/grants to poorer clubs to initiate programmes. Or the consistent power plays to put their guys into teams they don't belong in (like the hooker in the ACT XV), or getting whiff another club is bringing in a player, promising them the world, and then stashing them away in 3rd grade - especially when other clubs have run out of that position due to injuries.

I fully appreciate that past incidences/rorts have done no favors to clubs like Easts, Royals, Daramalan, Norths etc - however continually focusing on past events will get the ACTRU nowhere. Supporting the roll out of development programmes in each clubs locale and making Rugby the default choice in the ACT should be the goal.

 

[Rugby Central]

I fully appreciate that past incidences/rorts have done no favors to clubs like Easts, Royals, Daramalan, Norths etc - however continually focusing on past events will get the ACTRU nowhere. Supporting the roll out of development programmes in each clubs locale and making Rugby the default choice in the ACT should be the goal.[/quote]

Statistically Speaking Canberra rugby should be doing better. Canberra’s male population aged between 20-34 is a little over 44,000. Assuming only a third are physically able to play contact sport that leaves about 14,500 potential rugby players. Now bring that down to only 10%. That’s 1,450 fit and able players. Based on the 9 clubs that operate in Canberra (Easts, Gungahlin, Queanbeyan, Royals, Vikings, Uni-Norths, Wests, ADFA and RMC) that’s about 160 players per club. That’s 7 teams of 22 players in each club.

This assumes every player comes from Canberra and there are no players under the age of 20 or over the age of 34. Bring that back to 15 players per team (as most back up from the previous grade) and you have 10 teams per club. I appreciate that there are a number of other sports in Canberra but surely having a target of capturing 10% of the sporting market is not too onerous for ACT Rugby.

Just thought this would be a helpful reminder that if administrators looked to the good of the game then the potential is unlimited.

 

[rugbyskier]

a Queanbeyan team that develops rugby in Queanbeyans public schools would be an idea for example.

That would be a great initiative. I remember that David Campese used to play rugby for the Whites when he was in high school but had to play league for QHS as the school did not have a rugby team.

 

[suckerforred]

Just thought this would be a helpful reminder that if administrators looked to the good of the game then the potential is unlimited.

Here Here.

 

[FTS]

So does anyone have player movements from clubs? Apparently Royals fullback Ben Johnson who impressed for the ACT XV may be leaving, potentially to chase a rugby career? Anyone feel free to correct me. Vikings flyhalf Shaun McCarthey I believe has retired and has been replaced by Robbie Kydd.

 

[Intruder]

In regards to player movements how many recruits have Vikings picked up over the off-season ?

 

[FTS]

In regards to player movements how many recruits have Vikings picked up over the off-season ?

Ones I am aware of are Gareth Clouston (Sunshine Coast), Patrick Leafa (Auckland) , Jerome Niumata (Auckland), Robbie Kydd (europe) and JP Pradaud (Uni Norths).

 

[yourmatesam]

Is there a 2012 draw out yet? Fucking Brumbies webshite doesn't have it on there.

Can anyone help?

 

[Brumbies Guy]

Is there a 2012 draw out yet? Fucking Brumbies webshite doesn't have it on there.

Can anyone help?

Doubt it. Some clubs have only just started preseason last week, let along registered all their 2012 players to have the numbers to work out the number of teams and the draw.

Probably not the fucking Brumbies fault there. The season doesn't start for another 8 or so weeks doesn't it?

 

[rugbylover2012]

draws been out for ages..... not acceptable for it not to be out yet... its not like theyre changing the grade format or anything. its the same every year. act rugby should get proper ppl in to manage the John I Dent Cup. Can anyone giv a list of clubs gains and losses?

 

[Empire]

As the format of the competition is changing (dropping of 3rd and 4th premier grade teams playing country teams), perhaps that's why it's slow coming, as they can't simply cut and paste.

Knowing the Brumbies, it'll probably be quite late coming!