Le Tour 2012

[Jethro Tah]

Paris Tah, excellent post and welcome back.

I mistook you for P.Tah on the forum and was quite excited that I may see you again for a beer in the Wales V Wallabies game this weekend. Alas he is not you. At least we will always have Paris. Cracking night!

A cracking Paris night it was. I'll be back in Sydney by Xmas so see you then.

 

[Moses]

So what's the point of having a team built around a sprinter - you've got all these guys providing a ride out train and some leech just sits on your star sprinter's back wheel then jumps right before the line. Oh, then he has the hide to abuse the blokes who put him in the position to win the bloody sprint to start with!

 

[Cutter]

It's a great sport isn't it?

 

[Moses]

I'm now into my third year of following Le Tour and have a few opinions on riders' ethics.

If you're going for the points, then in my mind either you or your team must take a share of the load to get you into a position from where you can contest the points.

If you sit on the back wheel of a champion till the very last second then when you see the line you pounce and take the points, you are a fuckwit.

If you then complain about the quality of the lead out that you've just leeched off, or you try to coerce a champion into hunting down a breakaway after he's carried your brother up a hill for 100+ks then you are a fluffybunny.

 

[Joe Mac]

I'm now into my third year of following Le Tour and have a few opinions on riders' ethics.

If you're going for the points, then in my mind either you or your team must take a share of the load to get you into a position from where you can contest the points.

If you sit on the back wheel of a champion till the very last second then when you see the line you pounce and take the points, you are a fuckwit.

If you then complain about the quality of the lead out that you've just leeched off, or you try to coerce a champion into hunting down a breakaway after he's carried your brother up a hill for 100+ks then you are a fluffybunny.

The riders are not oblivious to this kind of behaviour. What makes the tour so special is that no rider can do it alone and at some stage everyone will need to rely on someone else to get them through it. Riders who act like dicks will find this out the hard way in the coming weeks.

 

[Moses]

Guys like Cavendish don't have to do it alone though - just sit on the back wheel of Goss and enjoy the long free line of Green Edge riders doing the heavy lifting.

 

[Cutter]

All of this is true, but there seem to be accepted exceptions in the peloton. A good example is Cancellara. If he makes a break, few can go with him and if they stick with him, they can often out sprint him because he's done all the hard work to make the break. Our new Slovakian hero sucked Cancellara's wheel for his first stage win. Watch some of the classics finishes as well where it appears to be accepted that it's okay for Cancellara to do most/all of the work on a break towards the finish because no one will beat him if they share it. That is my take anyway.

I agree though Moses, no one likes a wheel sucker.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Wheel suckers are like those middle distance runners who sit as a team behind the guy making all the pace and then decide which one of them will win it (I'm looking at you Kenya). It's not illegal, but it makes you a douche. I've actually seen a bloke take a swing at another runner after one of those types of races.

The point is well made about it all catching up with you later though. In a sport like road cycling, every dog has his day and pissing people off earlier in a tour will be to your detriment at some other point.

Some guys do also lack the guts to put it all on the line when the race is there to be won. I thought the Shleck's last year lacked the bottle to win it, whereas Cadel stuck with it and rode over the top of them.

 

[It is what it is]

Leaving aside Cadel Evans' small stature for the moment, if he was a rugby player, what position would you play him?
Consider his mental toughness, resilience, fitness and courage.......surely it's in the pack somewhere.

 

[Joe Mac]

All of this is true, but there seem to be accepted exceptions in the peloton. A good example is Cancellara. If he makes a break, few can go with him and if they stick with him, they can often out sprint him because he's done all the hard work to make the break. Our new Slovakian hero sucked Cancellara's wheel for his first stage win. Watch some of the classics finishes as well where it appears to be accepted that it's okay for Cancellara to do most/all of the work on a break towards the finish because no one will beat him if they share it. That is my take anyway.

I agree though Moses, no one likes a wheel sucker.

I also don't understand why Sagan sat on his wheel the whole time. Surely Cancellara was telling him that if they worked together he would let Sagan have the stage. Cancellara was much more interested in gaining some valuable seconds to maintain his yellow jersey than winning on the day...

I get the impression, and this is purely speculation, that Sagan is doing himself no favours in the way he is racing. It wouldn't surprise me if there arent too many people outside his team that like him...

Either way, it makes for entertaining racing.

 

[Gagger]

Guys like Cavendish don't have to do it alone though - just sit on the back wheel of Goss and enjoy the long free line of Green Edge riders doing the heavy lifting.

I'm with you, but the cold truth is that Chav did own Goss yesterday in that sprint, and has a couple of times before.

They say the other reason you want your own team around a sprinter is for protection and positioning when the shit goes down in the peloton - Cav got his comeuppance on that at the end of the stage.

The reason he's got no protection is the Sky team is all protecting Wiggins, who's now been caught up in two crashes within the last 3km? Don't seem to be doing a great job.

 

[Cutter]

It's a lot harder to keep a protected rider out of trouble than it looks. It's no coincidence that Evans' positioning and protection has been top notch post the arrival of George Hincapie. Stuart O'Grady used do the same thing for the Schlecks. There aren't many in the peloton capable of it and there isn't room in the peloton for more than a couple of guys like that.

 

[Cutter]

I get the impression, and this is purely speculation, that Sagan is doing himself no favours in the way he is racing. It wouldn't surprise me if there arent too many people outside his team that like him.

You may be right. He's not the first young punk to make enemies in the peloton though. Armstrong was the same. Sagan's ability and doing the hard yards will earn him respect.

 

[Jethro Tah]

As I said, Sagan needs to earn respect from the pelaton beyond just getting stage wins off the hard yards of other riders. If he doesn't he will just get spat out. Cav was like this for the last 2 years but seems to have matured this year, as evident in the Giro and so far in the TdF - maybe it's fatherhood.

Anyway, well done Greipel for today. Goss, it's your turn tomorrow.

I must say, I am really liking the positioning of Cadel in these flat stages. Kudos for big George, Van Garderen, Gilbert & the rest of team BMC. I can't wait for Saturday to see how they all cope with some gradient v the Sky team of Rogers, Porte, etc supporting Wiggins.

 

[Joe Mac]

You may be right. He's not the first young punk to make enemies in the peloton though. Armstrong was the same. Sagan's ability and doing the hard yards will earn him respect.

Either way, I love watching him race!

 

[light]

Last 1km. This is huge.

Evans v Wiggins.

Evans attacking now..

All over. Cadel takes out Wiggins but loses to Wiggins' Sky teammate Chris Froome.

Froome 1st, Cadel 2nd, Wiggins 3rd for the stage, 1st Overall: Wiggins, Cadel 2nd overall.

 

[tigerland12]

Oh how I love the mountains. Evans did very well, he is in a good spot, what a suprise by Froome, how he had energy after dragging Wiggins along I'll never know.

Team Sky looked scary though, they decimated the rest of the field, Schleck gone, Hejiedal out, Chavanell and van den Broeck struggled. It is going to be Evans vs Wiggins head to head with Nibballi looking for Bronze.

 

[Gagger]

V interesting.

Fanastic stuff from Rogers and Porte to set Wiggins and Froome up. I've got a concern now over Cadel's team - they were no-where to be seen on that climb.

Couldn't help but think Cadel looked stronger/more ambitious than Wiggins - am I imagining it?

 

[light]

Couldn't help but think Cadel looked stronger/more ambitious than Wiggins - am I imagining it?

Thought the same, Cadel looked like he wanted it more. Equally as important was that Cadel did it without a team, Wiggins hid behind Porte, Rogers and Froome and still couldn't beat Cadel up the mountain. I'm backing Cadel from here, once he can isolate Wiggins from Team Sky in the big mountains he will take the yellow jersey, the TT will be very important too, as too will the presence of Nabali.

I was surprised to see Frank Shleck and Ivan Basso dropped so quickly as too Sammy Sanchez. Dave Millar did a lot of the chase work for the peleton so not really surprised to see him lose a lot of time. Van Den Broeck (sp?) would have to be very disappointed with that technical malfunction so close to the end, he looked to be in good form.

BMC is going to really need to lift their game from here, can't help thinking that Van Garderen, Hincapie and Gilbert will need to be with Cadel in all future stages to compete with Team Sky.

 

[cyclopath]

Cadel better placed to be second now, rather than first. Let Team Sky have the job of controlling the peloton for a bit.