McMinimum GAAAWWWWWWWN

[Scotty]

I don't think you can compare pre-recession wages, the ARU can only spend what they have today, and really he is only a wing option at the moment at test level. Mortlock will be the 13.

I have no doubt next year he would be fantastic, but at the moment he is all potential test level.

and Qld can arrange whatever extra sponsorship dollars they can, just like they are trying to do for Elsom

fp,

I get the feeling you wouldn't be saying that if he was playing for the Tahs.

If indeed he has only been offered 190k, deep down you know it is a disgusting decision. You can tell from the interview with Deans on the rugby club that he was up for a spot in the 15 or 22. If we can't pay our top 20 players more than 200k, then we will be losing a lot more.

 

[louie]

http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,25532564-5002381,00.html

bad news for QLD if brumbies get him.

 

[fatprop]

I don't think you can compare pre-recession wages, the ARU can only spend what they have today, and really he is only a wing option at the moment at test level. Mortlock will be the 13.

I have no doubt next year he would be fantastic, but at the moment he is all potential test level.

and Qld can arrange whatever extra sponsorship dollars they can, just like they are trying to do for Elsom

fp,

I get the feeling you wouldn't be saying that if he was playing for the Tahs.

If indeed he has only been offered 190k, deep down you know it is a disgusting decision. You can tell from the interview with Deans on the rugby club that he was up for a spot in the 15 or 22. If we can't pay our top 20 players more than 200k, then we will be losing a lot more.

Scotty

I would be bitching about the NSWRU getting their shit together and it is on track earnings of $410,000.

Ioane wants extra $125,000 to stay

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Wayne Smith | May 25, 2009
Article from: The Australian

DYNAMIC Wallabies winger Digby Ioane will follow the lead of Queensland Reds team-mate Hugh McMeniman in accepting a Japanese or European offer unless the Australian Rugby Union finds an extra $125,000 to keep him in Australia.

Robbie Deans will meet Ioane on Wednesday or Thursday in a last-gasp effort to persuade the 23-year-old winger to turn down overseas offers as high as $1.1million a season, but unless the Australia coach brings a sizeable cheque with him, chances are he will be wasting his time.

Ioane views as "an insult" the ARU's base offer to him of $175,000 a season, even though that figure could balloon to $410,000 once match payments for Tests and Super 14 games are factored in, along with car and living-away-from-home allowances.

"But I could stay for $300,000 (base rate)," Ioane said yesterday.

"I love Queensland and I would love to play in the (2011) World Cup. It's just sad. I really want to stay. But what I got offered I felt was just an insult. Money is a big thing to me. I need to support my family, my Mum and my Dad. For me family comes first.

"I'm looking to go wherever Madness (McMeniman) goes. I've had heaps of offers from Japan and Europe. The money they're offering is a bit crazy."

Ioane even admitted the realisation his contract was up for negotiation had spurred him to produce the sizzling form that saw him finish just behind George Smith and Benn Robinson in the polling for the Australian Super 14 Player of the Year award.

"I knew I was coming off contract so I knew I had to perform," Ioane said.

An ARU spokesman said yesterday that if the differential between what Ioane could earn overseas and the extended ARU offer really was as wide as the $700,000 Ioane has indicated, there was nothing the national body could do but wish him well and encourage him to return to Australia as soon as possible to resume his Test career, now stalled on just four caps.

"There is only so much money in the coffers," the ARU spokesman said. "It's not a bottomless pit. But it should be pointed out that in 2008, there were only 20 players in Australian rugby who were offered over $400,000."

The top-of-the-range payment was just over $700,000, a figure reached by only a handful of players.

Reds coach Phil Mooney, while reluctantly coming to terms with the loss of his highest-impact forward, McMeniman, has not abandoned hope of strike winger Ioane remaining with Queensland next year.

"From our end, Digby is not gone yet and we are certainly going to try hard to retain him," Mooney said yesterday. "But losing Hugh has made it all the more important that we now pick up Rocky Elsom."

After his storming man-of-the-match performance in spearheading Leinster to its Heineken Cup final victory over Leicester on the weekend, blindside flanker Elsom has become one of the hottest properties in world rugby.

It is understood that the ARU is offering him an overall package of $650,000 - including the Super rugby component and match payments - with a further $100,000 available as a third-party deal if he chooses to join the Reds rather than his former team, the Waratahs.

Both Ioane and McMeniman admitted they had noted reports of what Elsom might earn if he joined the Reds, but insisted they were not leaving because 40-Test veteran Elsom was being offered so much more.

"Rocky just won a Heineken Cup final and had a great game so I can understand why they're chucking the bucks at him to try to get him to come to Queensland," said McMeniman. "I just hope if he comes it doesn't set back a guy like (blindside flanker) Scott Higginbotham who I reckon is set for a really big season for the Reds next year."

McMeniman, who has not yet decided whether to join a Japanese or European club but is leaning towards Japan where the level of rugby would put less strain on his often-injured lanky frame, is still hoping the ARU will grant him an exemption to play for the Reds again next season.

Aside from marquee players, only those footballers eligible to be selected for Australia are permitted to play in the Super 14, which means McMeniman and/or Ioane will disqualify themselves from playing for the Reds once they sign with a foreign club. It is a rule designed to ensure the Australian selectors have as many local players as possible to pick from.

 

[RugbyReg]

The base contract of $175k, I assume that includes the $150k the Reds pay? Or is he disappointed that he will have a base salary $325k?

Look, I just can't understand this thinking, particularly to play in Japan and to a lessor extent lower division France or Italy. These guys are elite footballer players. I assume they spend their lives, pretty much from the time they are 16 or so, thinking about the elite level. I am assuming that's why they play the game? I am assuming that is what is driving them when they are getting up early for the fitness sessions or when their muscles are burning towards the end of a weights session? The thought of playing for Australia in front of 80,000 odd? Surely its not the thought of this, not his pay packet? SURELY???? I know money is a driver and we all want to be rewarded for our services and abilities, but come on. Really? Is this what drives them?

Now Digby, this is the guy that has shopped himself around - as switching the league, with the Storm, and then talked up returning back to the Force after a few months at the Reds. His manager is obviously front and centre of all of this and another pointer to why player managers are a blight on the game - indeed professional sport. They are fucking with the players' heads.

 

[Scotty]

I guess a lot of the issue from the players perspective is seeing what others are paid – particularly if they think they perform on the same or better level.

Potential also has to come into it, and Ioane clearly has the potential to be one of the most damaging ball runners in world rugby – you could argue he is already no. 1 in Australian rugby. In addition to this he has improved his other skill sets that were once letting him down, and I’m guessing he was one of Deans first choice wingers.

fp,

I don’t have an issue with players comparing to pre-recession figures. I’m not sure what you do for a buck, but if you felt over the last year you had performed at a higher level than ever before, outshining most of your compatriots, yet were offered less in remuneration, are you telling me you wouldn’t be pissed off? The recession does not reduce the value of excellent employees to an organisation, in fact it more likely increases their comparative value.

 

[fatprop]

I guess a lot of the issue from the players perspective is seeing what others are paid – particularly if they think they perform on the same or better level.

Potential also has to come into it, and Ioane clearly has the potential to be one of the most damaging ball runners in world rugby – you could argue he is already no. 1 in Australian rugby. In addition to this he has improved his other skill sets that were once letting him down, and I’m guessing he was one of Deans first choice wingers.

fp,

I don’t have an issue with players comparing to pre-recession figures. I’m not sure what you do for a buck, but if you felt over the last year you had performed at a higher level than ever before, outshining most of your compatriots, yet were offered less in remuneration, are you telling me you wouldn’t be pissed off? The recession does not reduce the value of excellent employees to an organisation, in fact it more likely increases their comparative value.

I believe Digby is a fantastic talent, but $410,000 is a bloody good wage package for someone yet cement his test spot.

The recession hasn't lowered a players value, just their employers ability to pay and the need to pay.

 

[louie]

400k + is a bit much really.

 

[Ash]

$410k is a theorectical figure that would never be reached. No-one plays anywhere all tests and all S14 matches in a year. And I would suspect that the "allowances" inclusion is more than a little dodgy as well.

But being said, $175k seems low, but it's hard to compare. I'd like to know what, say, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Hynes, Shepherd, Mitchell, Turner, etc are on in comparison, not to mention Tahu and Tuqiri to get an idea if that is fair.

3M leaving is just sad and depressing. But nothing that us Reds fans aren't already used to.

Elsom heading to the Brumbies? That's just a kick in the teeth. The Brumbies migration from great talent spotters / developers to great poachers is nearly complete.

 

[Biffo]

Elsom heading to the Brumbies? That's just a kick in the teeth.

Whose teeth?

 

[disco]

The thought of playing for Australia in front of 80,000 odd? Surely its not the thought of this, not his pay packet? SURELY?Huh? I know money is a driver and we all want to be rewarded for our services and abilities, but come on. Really? Is this what drives them?

Spot on, it would be a very rare 16 year old athlete that dreams of his bank balance at night rather than scoring the winning try for the Wallabies in a bledisloe.

I know I'm not in the position of being offered money but if I was 25 with the RWC 2years away I wouldn't be looking overseas until I had given my best years for my country.

 

[Ash]

Elsom heading to the Brumbies? That's just a kick in the teeth.

Whose teeth?

Reds and Tahs perspective. Obviously not Brumbies (any Brumbies supporter would be happy to hear they are in with a shot).

Starting to think a draft system might be useful in Aus. A few teams seem to be able to hoard players in some positions. There's a few players struggling to get onto the park that I wouldn't mind watching. That being said, the amount of younger players heading overseas that I do like watching (Gerrard, 3M, probably Ioane) stinks.

 

[formeropenside]

Elsom heading to the Brumbies? That's just a kick in the teeth.

Whose teeth?

Reds and Tahs perspective. Obviously not Brumbies (any Brumbies supporter would be happy to hear they are in with a shot).

Starting to think a draft system might be useful in Aus. A few teams seem to be able to hoard players in some positions. There's a few players struggling to get onto the park that I wouldn't mind watching. That being said, the amount of younger players heading overseas that I do like watching (Gerrard, 3M, probably Ioane) stinks.

Its not a draft you want, its a transfer fee system for players developed to a particular level by that State - schoolboys, U19, State, Wallaby. Who wants mexicans clogging up Qld. All we need is to keep our own players.

 

[rugbywhisperer]

Elsom heading to the Brumbies? That's just a kick in the teeth.

Whose teeth?

Reds and Tahs perspective. Obviously not Brumbies (any Brumbies supporter would be happy to hear they are in with a shot).
Starting to think a draft system might be useful in Aus. A few teams seem to be able to hoard players in some positions. There's a few players struggling to get onto the park that I wouldn't mind watching. That being said, the amount of younger players heading overseas that I do like watching (Gerrard, 3M, probably Ioane) stinks.

Its not a draft you want, its a transfer fee system for players developed to a particular level by that State - schoolboys, U19, State, Wallaby. Who wants mexicans clogging up Qld. All we need is to keep our own players.

Maybe, but some I am sure want nothing to do with the QRU and will be actually looking to move elsewhere. How do you put a fee on them?
I would prefer to see a draft for the younger blokes but again I would prefer to see the kiddies kept in an under 20/21 format running parallel to the S14, 15 until their game and bodies mature.

 

[fatprop]

$410k is a theorectical figure that would never be reached. No-one plays anywhere all tests and all S14 matches in a year. And I would suspect that the "allowances" inclusion is more than a little dodgy as well.

But being said, $175k seems low, but it's hard to compare. I'd like to know what, say, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Hynes, Shepherd, Mitchell, Turner, etc are on in comparison, not to mention Tahu and Tuqiri to get an idea if that is fair.

3M leaving is just sad and depressing. But nothing that us Reds fans aren't already used to.

Elsom heading to the Brumbies? That's just a kick in the teeth. The Brumbies migration from great talent spotters / developers to great poachers is nearly complete.

To be a "410,000" the package must means roughly the known (ARU 175,000), (Qld S14 approx 125,000)
& (Bonuses/match payments 10,000 a Wallaby match etc)

 

[RugbyReg]

Yeah, which means he's turning his back on a confirmed $300k-ish type salary. Greedy?

Look, I know the argument is that these guys have a limited earning potential, but I still think they are doing a hell of a lot better off than other 24 year olds. I mean RUPA/ARU also pays for their education (should they want one) and opens up so many significant contacts for them.

Does Japanese rugby do that?

 

[rugbywhisperer]

Obviously the Gold jersey isn't as significant to some as it is to others.
As for Ioane, I am still not sold on his long term potential - and maybe he knows something we don't, maybe that shoulder is worse than we know and the quick(er) buck is a better looking option as he may not be around for much longer.

 

[RugbyReg]

Obviously the Gold jersey isn't as significant to some as it is to others.
As for Ioane, I am still not sold on his long term potential - and maybe he knows something we don't, maybe that shoulder is worse than we know and the quick(er) buck is a better looking option as he may not be around for much longer.

good point

 

[disco]

Oh well they are gone now & we just have to move on like thay have, hopefully young blokes like Luke Morahan & Scott Higginbotham fill the void.

 

[Newb]

i hate to see ANY talented aussies go overseas to chase the $$. you can argue about each player's future and what sort of potential they have, but the bottom line is they're fellas you'd like to keep in the mix. and as someone else mentioned, how are we going to pay for a 5th team if we can't afford the blokes that make up the current 4? :nta:

i can see not wanting to up the ante on madness as he has shown a history of injuries and seems to be a fringe international at best (which maybe he knows). he's currently behind some of if not all of sharpe, horwill, mumm, kimlin, chisholm, and caldwell in the pecking order -- that's a lot to overcome. if he were to focus on either lock or flanker (not both) maybe he could improve a bit more, but similar to mumm he seems to be a lock with zip (good thing) or a flanker without zip (not a good thing). maybe he's tired of van the man getting starting preference also. another case of not looking to the future enough?? i know van is still holding his own, but where is it going to get him? so maybe fair enough to MMM for taking the money while he still can.

diggers i think is a different story. i'm not saying start selling the furniture to pay for his contract. but i think the man deserves a decent wage. still young enough and had a great year, still improving. yes injured, but i reckon if he was trying to make it into the squad for the last couple games of the season (no reason to play at that point) then it's most likely not horrible. better to do the surgery and get it fully fixed up.

i see him as a lomu type - big, strong, fast, hard to bring down and definitely worth keeping around. especially come RWC 2011 time. not to mention that the wing stables are looking a bit thin. i like hynes, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), and turner but i'm not sure any of them have as high a ceiling. i think lote has reached his peak. a few others are on the way (cummins, fainifo, etc.) but not yet there. plus digby cut out his dumb spear tackles - always a plus :thumb

he's also clearly publicly negotiating his contract. not the best way to do business, but it is still business. maybe he'll take less than he says. anyone know what he made this year? would the $175k be much of a raise? can they offer him an incentive based contract? some lesser guaranteed base with extra for every try or number of meters gained or tackles broken or something? that way for guys like him with "potential" or injury concerns if they don't live up to the hype they don't make as much. either way i think they need to get him signed and in a wallaby jumper. i think a lot of others - including robbie deans - might agree with that.

 

[louie]

we can debate ho much is worth the real question to ask yourself is if you where him after this year and last few, why the fuck would you want to stay in QLD