Michael Foley should do the honourable thing and resign

[pjm]

I have harped on about it on another thread, but with regard to the ARU's funding of development programs in this country.
1) For years many have called for a "front row/scrum school" to provide consistent technical training to scrums throughout the country at all levels. Just have a youtube search of Mike Cron and you will see school boys getting in depth coaching in technical aspects not just a meet and greet saying how great it is to see you all. So where is it? Instead we get coaches who have never been properly developed themselves, whos only qualification is being a former player in Cam and Andrew Blades.

Schoolboy rules see back row type players playing in the front row. Thus 'real' props are left out in the cold. Change schoolboy rules and you will see our propping improve.

2) Referees - since Stuart Dickenson retired we haven't had a test referee from Australia. Andrew Leeds may get some games but is there abybody below him in serious development? Where is the plan. Without high levels refs we cannot get a high level game.

Angus Gardner just reffed in the Six Nations and did very well from all accounts.

Coaches like Michael Foley, who was at one time the premier forwards coach in the country.

This kind of hooplah doesn't help anyone. Foley was never the best forwards coach in Australia.

 

[Gnostic]

Our biggest single deficiency is in kicking.





To put it mildly, we stink. Out of hand, from the ground. Chip kicks, box kicks, kicking for territory, we cannot do it.





It is bizarre given that the major winter code is built around kicking. Is there something we could learn from the AFL?

The All Blacks certainly did.

 

[Gnostic]

1.Schoolboy rules see back row type players playing in the front row. Thus 'real' props are left out in the cold. Change schoolboy rules and you will see our propping improve.







2.Angus Gardner just reffed in the Six Nations and did very well from all accounts.






3.This kind of hooplah doesn't help anyone. Foley was never the best forwards coach in Australia.

1.This is a part of the issue but refer to what I said, the AB scrum specialist Mike Cron runs scrummaging session at school boy level, just search youtube for the vidoes of them. Very good and pointing out issues our senior props make.


2.Yay. The point still stands. Where is the system. As I have said, I've tried a few times to get on a course in the country and there have been none.
3.Really? I would challenge you to go back and look at actual results an improvements in the scrum at the Wallabies when he was coaching under Deans, then examine the regression with exactly the same players when they parted ways. So your preference would be to discard talented people like Foley and Mooney (and many others) before him?[/quote]

 

[pjm]

1.This is a part of the issue but refer to what I said, the AB scrum specialist Mike Cron runs scrummaging session at school boy level, just search youtube for the vidoes of them. Very good and pointing out issues our senior props make.

It doesn't matter what he points out when the props that he is teaching won't be the next professional props.

 

[Brumby Runner]

2) Referees - since Stuart Dickenson retired we haven't had a test referee from Australia. Andrew Leeds may get some games but is there abybody below him in serious development? Where is the plan. Without high levels refs we cannot get a high level game.

The name is Andrew Lees. Leeds was a fullback at Kangaroo, Eels and Wests. Not sure he knows anything about rugby, but probably almost as much as Lees .

However, on your point, yes, imo Houston is showing a lot of promise and I'd rate him as the best of the Aussies atm and as one of the two best up and coming refs in Super Rugby along with Marius van der Westhuisen. Arguably, the NZ refs atm are the worst of the lot. Have you taken note of Fraser's efforts in the past couple of weeks? Woeful.

 

[Gnostic]

It doesn't matter what he points out when the props that he is teaching won't be the next professional props.

Kepu started as an 8/6 at school boy level. That list is very, very long. I wouldn't get too fixated on the position at schoolboy level, though I understand the argument. Given the rules around scrummaging at age grade level, and the likelihood of having them changed it is a dead end argument.

 

[Gnostic]

The name is Andrew Lees. Leeds was a fullback at Kangaroo, Eels and Wests. Not sure he knows anything about rugby, but probably almost as much as Lees .



However, on your point, yes, imo Houston is showing a lot of promise and I'd rate him as the best of the Aussies atm and as one of the two best up and coming refs in Super Rugby along with Marius van der Westhuisen. Arguably, the NZ refs atm are the worst of the lot. Have you taken note of Fraser's efforts in the past couple of weeks? Woeful.

I know its Lees, my fingers sometimes refuse to follow commands and have been known to gesticulate wildly at drivers, TVs at other sources of irritation without conscious input, why should typing be any different.

My point is the development pathway is virtually non-existent. On the news last night I saw yet another woman assistant ref or what ever they call touchies in the NRL. Rugby really needs to be at the cutting edge given its international footprint.

 

[2bluesfan]

Leeds was a fullback at Kangaroo, Eels and Wests. Not sure he knows anything about rugby, but probably almost as much as Lees .

Andrew Leeds was a Wallaby fullback and a member of a very successful Parramatta Two Blues team in the mid-80's prior to turning to league.

 

[boyo]

This thread seems to have morphed very quickly from about Michael Foley to a general whinge about rugby in Australia

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I'm all for Foley going, but the question is who to replace him? The one name I can think if right now is Todd Louden, if he's interested in coaching at this level still.

 

[wamberal]

Andrew Leeds was a Wallaby fullback and a member of a very successful Parramatta Two Blues team in the mid-80's prior to turning to league.

Scored a try against the All Blacks, too.

 

[wamberal]

This thread seems to have morphed very quickly from about Michael Foley to a general whinge about rugby in Australia

That's because there's plenty to whinge about. Enough for lots of threads.

 

[Gnostic]

This thread seems to have morphed very quickly from about Michael Foley to a general whinge about rugby in Australia

Because as much as Foley has failed badly at the Force in exactly the same way he did at the Tahs why should he take all the blame. The Force board who appointed him should be sacked and some professional people who can actually identify talent and create a system which promotes accountability and performance needs to be created before a coach is selected, otherwise the same thing will happen unless you really get lucky and get an exceptional individual.

I am also wholly against discarding a talented individual who was at one time one of the best if not the best forwards coach at the time. There is no reason to think he could not again revert back to the position which he was most suited to and gained such good results. Australia is not so blessed with talent that people can be scrapped so readily, Mooney springs to mind along with a few others. That is not to say he should be a head coach again.

 

[Forcefield]

I'm all for Foley going, but the question is who to replace him? The one name I can think if right now is Todd Louden, if he's interested in coaching at this level still.

Would take Louden in a heart beat but I doubt hed come. Force have dicked him over in the past I think.

 

[D-Box]

To be fair to Foley there are some issues below the head coach level. Look back to 2014 our last good season and we had David Joyce as the head of performance, running both the medical and physical preparation side of things. He was head hunted by GWS and went there last year leading to their best season. I won't name him but the man who took that position has been at the club for quite a while who's primary role is also to run the running based conditioning. This entire year we have been run over in the last 20 min. Says to me that there is some issues there. They also lost at the end of 2014 another brilliant S+C staff member who now holds the position as the head of conditioning for the Kookaburras. I would have loved to see how things would have gone if he had taken over the head of performance role at the Force. How much of a role Foley has in these appointments - I don't know.

 

[oztimmay]

Would take Louden in a heart beat but I doubt hed come. Force have dicked him over in the past I think.

He left the Rebels for family reasons (support family in Sydney), think a move to WA would not allow him to support his family.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Great players will not go there, neither will great or even good coaches.

Unfortunately, the West is a rugby desert. Hate to say that but said anyway.
Force (ARU) would have to chuck a lot of $$$$ at a quality Coach to go there because the experience probably won't enhance his Coaching Resume for future roles.

 

[Moono75]

Great players will not go there, neither will great or even good coaches.

Unfortunately, the West is a rugby desert. Hate to say that but said anyway.
Force (ARU) would have to chuck a lot of $$$$ at a quality Coach to go there because the experience probably won't enhance his Coaching Resume for future roles.

This is what we have been saying for years. We need additional money to pay coaches & players over and above the market rate. We are competing with all the East coast teams and if its a dollar for dollar decision 95% of rugby people will stay on the other side of the country rather than up end the family etc to come over to WA.

The only other incentive would be if our facilities, coaching/support staff and the rugby program were seen as world class and you wanted to be involved with that. Unfortunately it's not (at the moment). The Force facility is pretty good though.

 

[Gnostic]

This is what we have been saying for years. We need additional money to pay coaches & players over and above the market rate. We are competing with all the East coast teams and if its a dollar for dollar decision 95% of rugby people will stay on the other side of the country rather than up end the family etc to come over to WA.



The only other incentive would be if our facilities, coaching/support staff and the rugby program were seen as world class and you wanted to be involved with that. Unfortunately it's not (at the moment). The Force facility is pretty good though.

That's the problem for the Force. Australian Rugby in all quarters is still pretty much broke and if the Force require such an additional injection I (am I think many other people) looking at the side purely as a business sustainability issue cannot justify it. If the Force had made massive in-road and growth of the past 10 years you could justify it, but that isn't the case. The fanatical support group that the Force has is as passionate a crowd as anybody is ever likely to find, but the inescapable fact is that with the game on financial life support it is not going to get the funding needed to make it anything more than the drain on the budget that it is now. It is a great pity but facts are unpleasant things.

 

[Scrubber2050]

That's the problem for the Force. Australian Rugby in all quarters is still pretty much broke and if the Force require such an additional injection I (am I think many other people) looking at the side purely as a business sustainability issue cannot justify it. If the Force had made massive in-road and growth of the past 10 years you could justify it, but that isn't the case. The fanatical support group that the Force has is as passionate a crowd as anybody is ever likely to find, but the inescapable fact is that with the game on financial life support it is not going to get the funding needed to make it anything more than the drain on the budget that it is now. It is a great pity but facts are unpleasant things.

Couldn't agree more. Force supporters just as loyal as Queenslanders

Unfortunately WE (being the collective) cannot afford to keep propping up the West. Happy for all your mob to relocate to QLD and bring your support behind the Reds.

IMO it would take a heap of $$$$$ (several + million each year) to attract a top team of players and top coach.

It shits me a bit when you have sqillionaires like Gina (the most beautiful woman in Australia if not the world - also happens to be worth $40-50 billion bucks) who don't "invest" in such a great project as the Force.
(I suppose that argument is not only one of validity in the West)