Mongrel – what is it? who has it? is it warranted?

[Proud Pig]

The mongrel is the guy who never takes a backward step. Will be a bit dirty if he thinks it is required not to a thuggish level of throwing a sly one but maybe crunching the tackle a little harder than needed.
The mongrel can also be the guy that is at the opposition all day, up and in their faces constantly making a real nuisance of themselves.
The mongrels of the game come in shapes and sizes. Dan Vickerman has a bit of mongrel in him, Justin Harrison was pure mongrel, Phil Waugh can be a real mongrel as could George Gregan.
Of the current Wallabies, Rocky and Cliffy both have a bit of the mongrel about them but not a huge amount.

 

[I like to watch]

Quade has less mongrel than my daughter's pet kitten.

You mean he is a pussy

 

[Bullrush]

You mean he is a pussy

Pretty much. I'd put money on myself to run over the top of him.

 

[Tank]

But no Wallabies now. Some of our players are hard, but none have true mongrel. Cliffy comes the closest, but nah. TPN no way.

I think it's a worthwhile quality. It puts opposing players on edge. Also, they know that if they do anything dirty themselves then they will be craftily hit.

Agree it is a worthwhile quality (sometimes) but can't say I agree about Cliffy. I could be wrong, but I can't remember too many times he has looked like starting a blue (or finishing one)... I think Ben Daley might have a bit and Adam Byrnes has too much. In terms of Wallaby or pushing for Wallaby selection, Old Man Van has some (hence rolling some c...ts) and possibly Stephen Moore. The Rock could, but the captaincy is curbing it. Otherwise, a bit thin on the ground. No Sam Scott-Youngs around for us anymore.

Brad Thorn is to me the best example of good mongrel. If you do something silly you know he will come over and put you on your ass.

Bakkies is the best example of bad mongrel. nuff said

 

[Jethro Tah]

The mongrel is the guy who never takes a backward step. Will be a bit dirty if he thinks it is required not to a thuggish level of throwing a sly one but maybe crunching the tackle a little harder than needed.
The mongrel can also be the guy that is at the opposition all day, up and in their faces constantly making a real nuisance of themselves.
The mongrels of the game come in shapes and sizes. Dan Vickerman has a bit of mongrel in him, Justin Harrison was pure mongrel, Phil Waugh can be a real mongrel as could George Gregan.
Of the current Wallabies, Rocky and Cliffy both have a bit of the mongrel about them but not a huge amount.

Morty has a bit of mongrel in him (and Richie obviously does) so it would seem that a successful captain has to know how to harness the aggression in himself and in his team, i.e. have mongrel. Did Farr-Jones show any signs of it? Comes across as the utmost gentleman IMO.

 

[Jethro Tah]

Richard Brown is a good study of how to or how not to apply mongrel. He went too hard too early, kept getting pinged and has backed off since. He wasn't able to harness his aggression for good and not evil, and has gone missing since lacking confidence, commitment and positive mongrel. Mumm has had a go at it with that mistimed clearout on Finger in the derby this year but it cost him game time and was a bit 'cheap' as Finger couldn't see it coming to defend himself hence I would deem that as a failed attempt at mongrel.

 

[Johnny Blaze]

Agree it is a worthwhile quality (sometimes) but can't say I agree about Cliffy. I could be wrong, but I can't remember too many times he has looked like starting a blue (or finishing one)...

I do remember him shaping up and ready to unload on Bakkies a couple of years back in one of the tri-nations games. Your right though he doesn't go round starting fights but I know he is more than capable of finishing them.

 

[Lee Grant]

I've read some of the posts on the thread and it's amazing how we differ in the opinion of one word we use from time to time in discussions about rugby.

Somebody making an ordinary post may use 3 or 4 such terms and each one can excite a difference of opinion of the post as a whole, when none should exist. The difference is not with the sense of the post intended by the poster but with the meaning imputed by the reader to some key words he used.

It is a wonder that we are not at each others' throats more often


When I use the word "mongrel" in relation to a particular player I don't mean that he's borderline dirty though he can be reckless in using mongrel and appear to be so.

My definition of "mongrel" at about item 8 of the dictionary when dogs and bad people have been covered, would be:

8. Rugby - Of, or pertaining to, the play of Wallaby Tatafu Polota-Nau.

 

[Groucho]

Agree it is a worthwhile quality (sometimes) but can't say I agree about Cliffy. I could be wrong, but I can't remember too many times he has looked like starting a blue (or finishing one)...

I do remember him shaping up and ready to unload on Bakkies a couple of years back in one of the tri-nations games. Your right though he doesn't go round starting fights but I know he is more than capable of finishing them.

That's a good post. Capable of finishing any fight is a pretty good description of mongrel.

 

[I like to watch]

Has anyone mentioned Peter Ryan or Toni Carroll?
Carroll was Lockyer's bodyguard for most of his carreer in the NRL

 

[grievous]

we have been devoid of it for too long, too many players raised on the right side of the sticks? I dont think so but even though its not working out now, the cricket side has had it for years, lets be c*nts, just not dirty cheating ones.. Well maybe a little dirty

 

[BrumbiesPolynesian]

in the current Wallabies Crop....I would say not many have it.....maybe Horwill probably has out and out Mongrel that is needed in the pack, Moore as well. I think Captaincy has taken away Elsoms mongrel, he used to be a lot more Physical and dominant than he is now....Dan Vickerman will add a lot of the starch that has been missing, him and Horwill will be the hardest 2nd Row pairing I think the Wallabies would have put out for a number of years.

The All Blacks, I would say Kaino, Thorn, Owen and Ben Franks and Mealamu have that mongrel, Mealamu to a lesser degree, the Franks brothers are mongrels..out and out mongrels...as is Thorn, and Kaino is becoming the Jerry Collins of this ABs pack....add Ali Williams to that mix also if he is fit for the RWC.

 

[sevenpointdropgoal]

I've always thought mongrel was the ability to push back when your guys are getting knocked around a bit. It might occasionally involve a few illegalities, but it's more about doing what it takes to maintain physical dominance, or at least equality, without conceding too many penalties. In this respect it's extremely important to have a few guys with a bit of mongrel on the park. The menacing prospect of a big hit, or a bit of argy bargy to force a turnover, or even a well timed off-camera fist, can sometimes be enough to convince an opposing player not to take an option that they otherwise might have. It can force some players to start considering percentage kicks, crab walking and long passes to nowhere. It can make them flinch in applying a tackle, or when driving forward with the ball in hand. It can make them think twice before getting to physical with other smaller players.

It shouldn't be confused with blind aggression though. A player with mongrel has to have a certain degree of nous. They've got to know who to target, know when to apply pressure, sense how the ref is reading the game and when he is unlikely to notice or penalize an infraction, and know when conceding a penalty is preferable to letting play continue. Most of all, they've got to know when to back off.

Matt Cockbain, Vicks, Harrison and Kefu were always capable of injecting a bit of mongrel. In this respect I particularly look forward seeing Horwill come back. He and TPN are pretty dominant physical players.

 

[Thomond78]

Peter Martin Noel Clohessy.

Thread ends.

 

[dobduff11]

T78 Peter Alexander Stirnger

Thread ends

[video=youtube;97LVB1LO4Yc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97LVB1LO4Yc[/video]

2.06 Haha

 

[Thomond78]

I've seen him get into a fight with Martin Johnson - and Johnson having to give up, because he couldn't put him down.

Stringer is unkillable. It's him, lawyers and cockroaches that'll be left after the nuclear apocalypse.

 

[dobduff11]

T78 Is that the one where Johnson got sin binned because stringer started on him.

And tbh he cant be killed, i thought his international career was over but guess what happened

 

[Geeves]

Michael Foley for me was the type of mongrel every team needs. To me the term is for an uncompromising player who does not get intimidated, dominates his opposite number, creates critical and beneficial moments in a match, rarely starts any bullshit (so players like Harrison & Bakkies who have been mentioned are uncontrolled idiots in my opinion) except when it looks to be a deliberate ploy to put the opposition off (Foley punch during the Lions tour when playing for QLD, is still the best right I have seen), doesn’t avoid it (I do remember a number of dusk ups in scrums dealing with younger players) and stands up and bleeds for their team mates but doesn’t spend their time mouth off (Sheenan) uselessly to the ref or to the opposition.

One of the other players I have huge respect for in that aspect is Daniel Braid, David Croft, Phil Waugh, John Eales (a hidden mongrel his dealing with Fitzpatrick (another classic) picking on Bowman defines it)

 

[Bowside]

David Croft.

 

[Henry]

Michael Brial?