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NRC Law Variations - have your say

Discussion in 'National Rugby Championship (NRC)' started by Gagger, May 12, 2014.

  1. Scoey Tony Shaw (54)

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    But work to achieve what? And better how?
  2. p.Tah John Thornett (49)

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    A game that is even more enjoyable to play and watch.
    Joe King and TOCC like this.
  3. Omar Comin' Chilla Wilson (44)

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    What specific positive aspects of rugby do you think will be taken away by the change in points system?

    Teams will still have all the multitude of game plans available to them that they do now. There will still be all the different ways of going about getting possession in good territory and putting pressure on the opposition. It's just that scoring significant points won't be as simple as one guy kicking a goal following subjective refereeing decisions.
  4. Scoey Tony Shaw (54)

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    :) Nice reply! I get what you are saying but I hope the folk responsible for the changes had a more concrete goal in mind than improving the vibe of the game!
  5. p.Tah John Thornett (49)

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    To be honest I'm sceptical about the points change, but sometimes you have to suck it and see.

    If it was a global roll out I'd be very concerned, but I'm keen to see what happens.
    Scoey likes this.
  6. Scoey Tony Shaw (54)

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    I covered what I thought the result would be in my post that you quoted. The points system is a fundamental part of the game and a move toward encouraging more tries and removing incentive for penalty or drop goals will dilute the game and remove a large part of the drama that is unique to rugby. If you didn't understand my original post then I don't think I can be clearer.

    Your last sentence is your go-to line though and it's beginning to become tiresome. You make it sound like every penalty ever given is a 50/50 and that the majority of games each week are decided by one team scoring the majority of their points through penalties while the losing side has been scoring tries all night but just falling short. It's just not true.

    I find it ironic that your biggest beef with the current set up is referees deciding games yet the new points system relies almost entirely on referees applying a more judicious use of cards to make the changes 'work'.
    Braveheart81 likes this.
  7. Scoey Tony Shaw (54)

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    I don't have a problem with law trials as a concept. I think the scoring system change though is too much for the NRC. The NRC is not even a fledgling competition yet and making a big change like that I think is too risky. If it's a flop then it could reflect poorly on the NRC before it even had a chance to succeed.
  8. Braveheart81 Rocky Elsom (76)

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    It seems weak to me our country that routinely struggles with goalkicking relative to other top nations is complaining that games are won by teams slotting over easy kicks.

    I agree with Scoey that it is an integral part of the game and one that we don't pay enough attention too.

    It also ignores the fact that correct and incorrect referee decisions have arguably just as much impact on tries being scored or not scored as penalty goals.
  9. Omar Comin' Chilla Wilson (44)

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    So nothing specific about the game play other than the goals themselves and the 'theatre' around them. That's all I was asking.

    The rugby points system has changed many times. Every single time there would have been people like you saying the exact same thing. It's always changed to give greater emphasis to tries and the spectacle of the game has improved as a result. No one ever talks about going back to 3 or 4 point tries after all.

    It's a long running trend and it continues. Ultimately because teams trying to score tries (and all the facets of the game that go into that) is what most people want to watch. The effect of penalty goals on the result is actually not the impetus for change. The impetus for change is that most penalty goals are boring and take away from the actual playing of rugby.

    I think any loss of 'drama' from losing a few penalty goals in every game will be more than off-set by the increase in drama and entertainment resulting from more rugby. But each to their own.

    And I doubt there'll be too much of a change in use of cards. It will happen simply due to the fact teams will keep attacking, rather than taking shots at goal all the time (which means the ball returns to more neutral territory). Cards won't be used for the 50/50 decisions, they'll be for repeated killing of the ball and offsides or other cynical offences.
  10. Braveheart81 Rocky Elsom (76)

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    I just disagree that penalty goals equate to something uninteresting.

    I remember back to the Reds v Brumbies game last year where Horwill kept turning down shots at goal to have 5m lineouts that were either butchered or there was another penalty followed by another 5m lineout.

    It was frustrating and I think a more interesting rugby game would have resulted if they'd taken the three and then worked their way back down there again which they probably would because they were on top.

    Equating goals to boring rugby strikes me as a comment from someone who didn't really watch a game but wanted to complain about it anyway.
  11. TOCC Guest

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    I like the rule changes, if for nothing else then to see whether they go well or fail.

    Kicking at goal is such a small aspect of the game, the potential to enhance other areas through these rule changes massive.. By diminishing the penalty goal you increase the likelihood that the teams will go for a rolling maul or a scrum, both of which are areas Australian Rugby needs improvement in.

    So yes, you may lose a few opportunities for the goal kicker to kick at goal, but you will have both forwards packs walking away from the game a little bit more educated in line-outs, mauls and scrums.
    terry j likes this.
  12. ChargerWA Mark Loane (55)

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    I think I said a few pages back it thought it was important not diminish the importance of goal kicking.

    But now it's happening, we might as well suck it and see. If it's no good, change it back next year. If it's great, we start lobbying the IRB.

    The only positive I can see out of it is it makes a more even contest between two teams who are well matched but one has a shit hot goal kicker. Makes it a better contest and gives the whole 15 guys a chance to contribute more to the win.
    p.Tah likes this.
  13. Omar Comin' Chilla Wilson (44)

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    I acknowledge that a game with lots of penalty goals isn't necessarily a boring game. The rugby in between them could be amazing. The Super Rugby final being a recent example. And because that was a final the penalty goals in a close game did add to the theatre. But I think it would have been a better match with less of them. The closeness and changes in momentum wouldn't have been any different, and perhaps there would have been more on your feet moments. Line breaks, near tries or tries.

    In a regular game with less on the line those 14 shots at penalty goal would have been a lot more tedious.
  14. TOCC Guest

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    I think the point with "boring field goals" is that when you have two teams who are either playing negative rugby or they are just both playing badly, then field goals becomes the preferred option due to the inability to cross the oppositions try-line.

    I agree 100% that penalty goals do not directly equate to boring rugby, but when used in a specific fashion they can be the by-product of a boring style of rugby.
  15. Dan54 Andrew Slack (58)

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    Ok, I may have been a bit strong, but I really feel the points system is trying to hard to force a certain style of rugby, as is stopping 9s challenging for ball. One of the beauties of rugby in my opinion is it can be played in so many different ways tinkering with rules to try and make everyone score tries all the time is in my opinion changing it a little too much. As I said I hope I am wrong, I just feel I was disappointed a bit when I read rule variations, and was not looking forward to it quite as much as before.
    Bullrush likes this.
  16. TahDan Cyril Towers (30)

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    Interesting post from one of the South African boys over at 'The Rugby Forum' on the points change:


    That's a bit of a promising comment really. But I actually really like the idea of the challenge. I wonder why that wasn't considered?
  17. Braveheart81 Rocky Elsom (76)

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    The SR final was widely acknowledged as a brilliant game of rugby and many people who went (myself included) who have been to a lot of live rugby have never witnessed anything better (particularly as a Waratahs fan).

    It seems a bit ridiculous to say it would have been better with less kicks at goal. It's a hypothetical that has no basis in reality.

    Why not make the comment that it would have been better if neither team had given away any penalties and allowed both teams to attack more freely and score more tries?

    Giving away penalties is part of the game. It's a reality of rugby being a contest for the ball. You can't yellow card every breakdown infringement because it would get ridiculous but our game is built around there being a constant contest to win the ball. Allowing players to compete and penalising them when they get it wrong is integral to the game. Being able to kick at goal allows a team to take advantage of that infringement. If you make the punishment too harsh (as in far more frequent yellow cards) you'll start killing that contest for the ball.

    It's a fine balance.

    Rugby league removed that contest for the ball entirely and whilst I do watch some of it, I think it is far less interesting than rugby union. It is repetitive and boring.
  18. Brumby Runner John Eales (66)

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    Think it will also get rid of those ridiculous after try scoring celebrations, especially where the ball gets thrown away by the scorer. Can see the scorer now immediately regaining his feet with ball in hand to get it to the kicker post haste.
    boyo likes this.
  19. Braveheart81 Rocky Elsom (76)

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    The 45 second shot clock should be the Benny Hill theme played over the load speakers.

    As the goal kicker run into position, players run to get the ball and return it to the kicker and someone runs on the kicking tee it would just complete the spectacle.
    HJ Nelson likes this.
  20. Omar Comin' Chilla Wilson (44)

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    I completely agree with almost all of this. Rugby without infringements would be sterile and boring. I just think a kick for touch - basically possession 20+ metres further up field is, in most cases, enough of an advantage for a team that's been infringed against. If the infringements are obviously cynical, or if teams are continuing to go against referee instructions (and commit repeated infringements), then a card is adequate. I don't really see the need for anything else. Though I can live with 2 point penalty goals.

    Rugby's rule book is extremely complex. It's very long. In many instances, particularly at the breakdown, you could penalise both teams for something by the letter of the law. Referees have a very tough job and must interpret the rules in the spirit of the game. I just think having their decisions lead to direct points is not ideal. Especially as the process for getting those points is so tedious. Maybe it would be better if there was some element of competition to a penalty kick. Like a possibility of a charge down or something - as is the case for drop goals in general play (which I have zero problem with). But my preference is to limit the value of penalty goals or get rid of them. So I'm happy. While the majority on GAGR seem to be in favour of the current scoring system (at least that's the impression I get on this thread), I am quite clearly in the majority of rugby fans. There's a poll on the SMH website which shows this.

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