NSW AAGPS Rugby 2012

[Vanuatu Chiefs]

Angrydog, whilst I don't profess to know whether we're witnessing an irreversible trend from Joeys' historical pre-eminence, I recall Baldingwingforward's inciteful post in the GPS 2011 thread that probably contains more then a few grains of truth. To recall, he said:

"Baldingwingforward: This is my take on it:

A number of things have happened that have had an impact on Joeys Rugby and as a result, they are not as dominant now, and possibly won't ever return to their dominance of old.

Firstly - the competition being made strictly U18 has had a big impact on a number of schools, but especially Joeys. In days gone by (and i'm talking 80s and 90s) it was common for boys to repeat Yr 12 so they could play another year of 1st XV and get another shot at GPS glory. This meant that there used to be a number of 'older' players playing 1st XV rugby. This can no longer happen and it has had an impact.

Secondly - the Joeys demographic has changed significantly in the last few years (as it has at other schools) and with the move away from 100% boarding they no longer have the cream of the kids that they used to. Their numbers are smaller than some of the other schools and this is having an impact, and i think will become even more influential in the next few years.

Thirdly - other schools, in an attempt to match the success of Joeys, have put much more emphasis on their rugby programmes. Opposition players are now better coached and very well prepared in terms of the strength and conditioning that they get put through. Joeys used to lead the way here, with a huge gym culture, particularly amongst the boarders - perhaps not anymore? Kings, New and Scots all have dedicated Directors of Rugby who do very little/no teaching, and get big $s - they are solely there to improve the standard of the rugby programme and the 1st XV.

Fourthly - several schools (Kings, Newington and Scots) have become very aggressive in their quest for GPS Rugby premierships. Despite there being clear GPS byelaws relating to @cholarships they blatantly ignore them. This results in their 1st XV teams being MUCH better than they would normally/used to be, and therefore much harder to beat - therefore Joeys doesn't win like they used to.

Lastly and perhaps most controversially, but could it be time for some new coaching blood at Joeys? How long has Brth Boyd been at the helm? An excellent coach who has had unrivalled success, but is he up to date with the current trends and tactics?"

 

[Sydneybra]

Good point CTPE - my understanding is that the 1st XV game was the only loss for Kings across all the age groups on Saturday! A great effort and can only be good for the future.

New 15A's won in a great game 22-14

 

[angrydog]

Angrydog, whilst I don't profess to know whether we're witnessing an irreversible trend from Joeys' historical pre-eminence, I recall Baldingwingforward's inciteful post in the GPS 2011 thread that probably contains more then a few grains of truth. To recall, he said:

"Baldingwingforward: This is my take on it:

A number of things have happened that have had an impact on Joeys Rugby and as a result, they are not as dominant now, and possibly won't ever return to their dominance of old.

Firstly - the competition being made strictly U18 has had a big impact on a number of schools, but especially Joeys. In days gone by (and i'm talking 80s and 90s) it was common for boys to repeat Yr 12 so they could play another year of 1st XV and get another shot at GPS glory. This meant that there used to be a number of 'older' players playing 1st XV rugby. This can no longer happen and it has had an impact.

Secondly - the Joeys demographic has changed significantly in the last few years (as it has at other schools) and with the move away from 100% boarding they no longer have the cream of the kids that they used to. Their numbers are smaller than some of the other schools and this is having an impact, and i think will become even more influential in the next few years.

Thirdly - other schools, in an attempt to match the success of Joeys, have put much more emphasis on their rugby programmes. Opposition players are now better coached and very well prepared in terms of the strength and conditioning that they get put through. Joeys used to lead the way here, with a huge gym culture, particularly amongst the boarders - perhaps not anymore? Kings, New and Scots all have dedicated Directors of Rugby who do very little/no teaching, and get big $s - they are solely there to improve the standard of the rugby programme and the 1st XV.

Fourthly - several schools (Kings, Newington and Scots) have become very aggressive in their quest for GPS Rugby premierships. Despite there being clear GPS byelaws relating to @cholarships they blatantly ignore them. This results in their 1st XV teams being MUCH better than they would normally/used to be, and therefore much harder to beat - therefore Joeys doesn't win like they used to.

Lastly and perhaps most controversially, but could it be time for some new coaching blood at Joeys? How long has Brth Boyd been at the helm? An excellent coach who has had unrivalled success, but is he up to date with the current trends and tactics?"

Thanks Chief, all very relevant points. I had not seen the great bald ones post before so thank you for showing me this. These factors and the consequent slide in results must be devestating to Joeys old boys who for so long have delighted in taunting and reminding old boys of other schools (particularly late at night after several ales) of Joeys long heralded, and deserved success. What will they talk about now?

 

[Vanuatu Chiefs]

Thanks Chief, all very relevant points. I had not seen the great bald ones post before so thank you for showing me this. These factors and the consequent slide in results must be devestating to Joeys old boys who for so long have delighted in taunting and reminding old boys of other schools (particularly late at night after several ales) of Joeys long heralded, and deserved success. What will they talk about now?

My experience when talking to Joeys' old boys is that it undeniably hurts. However, until such such time as the rest of us have so many glory days to recall (not in my lifetime) we can't deny them their justifiable pride at what has been achieved. So long the benchmark & if other schools are now legitimately placing more emphasis on their rugby programmes then our game is the richer.

 

[Rugby lover]

Predictions for view vs scots?

 

[CTPE]

Thanks Chief, all very relevant points. I had not seen the great bald ones post before so thank you for showing me this. These factors and the consequent slide in results must be devestating to Joeys old boys who for so long have delighted in taunting and reminding old boys of other schools (particularly late at night after several ales) of Joeys long heralded, and deserved success. What will they talk about now?

I wouldn't be dismissing Joeys 2012 chances too quickly though. They'll be hurting big time after their loss to Scots and primed for retribution when they venture out to Stanmore next weekend. If they can match New in the forwards they have some good talent in the backs and can make it very interesting. A win there will see them right back in it and level pegging with New.

 

[Micheal]

I wouldn't be dismissing Joeys 2012 chances too quickly though.

Nor should any side be dismissed at this stage in the competition. I believe it is highly unlikely that any side will go through undefeated, and therefore every side (apart from Grammar) could still win the competition given their results, and the other teams results, over the next few weeks.

 

[KOB1987]

Nor should any side be dismissed at this stage in the competition. I believe it is highly unlikely that any side will go through undefeated, and therefore every side (apart from Grammar) could still win the competition given their results, and the other teams results, over the next few weeks.

I am still going for the 4 way tie.....4 teams to win 4 games each....and those 4 teams could be anyone except Grammar, although Kings have it all uphill from here....

 

[sulidor]

Scots beat Joeys for the third year in a row in an emphatic display at Bellevue Hill. In doing so they turned their ordinary trial form around and announced clearly to the rest of the competition that there was a new gun in town. Scots 25 – Joeys 10 The scoring Scots notched a penalty

Click this link to read the full article.

...this is already unprecedented.....scots have NEVER before won 3 in a row....

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Nor should any side be dismissed at this stage in the competition. I believe it is highly unlikely that any side will go through undefeated, and therefore every side (apart from Grammar) could still win the competition given their results, and the other teams results, over the next few weeks.

In 1978 Grammar lost its first 3 games then beat Joeys at Joeys and Newington at Newington (plus a couple of other upsets) - the latter to deny them the premiership. So dont write them off.

 

[Think About Rugby]

In 1978 Grammar lost its first 3 games then beat Joeys at Joeys and Newington at Newington (plus a couple of other upsets) - the latter to deny them the premiership. So dont write them off.

Excellent point of history. However that was back when rugby was an amateur sport. Now even schoolboy rugby is more like professional sport.

 

[Rugby from the backrow]

He is no Whiteley, but he does not tap penalties and run off on his own and get isolated.

I always find this an interesting comment. I have coached many teams and I find it hard to say that someone running forward with the ball isolates themselves as they are going in the right direction. I am more critical of the other 7 forwards who are not paying attention and supporting their player,usually jogging and watching instead of having a go.

 

[Shooter]

 

[Rugby from the backrow]

if you were at the game you would have sen the arrogance and the selfishness of this one player who in my eyes and the rest of the joeys crowd let the riverview team down. the team was simply selfish when they had the ball and were out enthused through out the game. so that raises the question was he being selfish or was he enthusiastic i think i can speak for the rest of the 10 thousand or so people that were there he was simply put "selfish". the coach should of pulled him off actually pull the whole team off

I was at the game and obviously saw it from a different perspective. I and many of the other riverview parents that I was sitting with were of the opinion that he was one of the few riverview players that showed any enthusiasm. He would have been the last forward that I would have taken off. As he was the captain it was his decision to take quick taps and for the rest of the team to support him

 

[kbw]

New 15A's won in a great game 22-14

Was it the 15As or the 15Bs where the behaviour of some of the Kings players was simply disgraceful?

 

[Lee Grant]

I thought Kellaway and Crichton were Scots best, Kellaway as always was a nightmare with ball in hand and his try saving tackle on Pay was the biggest play of the day and Crichton was like Richie McCaw, through the side and off his feet at just about every break down, yet constantly coming out with the ball. Agree with gpsoldboy and have said for a long time that both these boys are the closest i have seen to future Wallabies.

Good call, though we probably shouldn't be making them on a schools forum. I have deliberately limited myself in talking about Kellaway, to describing him as like a young Matt Burke at the same age - and I saw Burke then. He's in Yr.11; it's remarkable - not that I am talking about individual actions he has done, but for the maturity of all his play.

I wouldn't be talking about Crichton like that, a Yr.10 boy. If he makes it, let's see him in an Oz Schools team first, as we can see Kellaway, before we start making opinions of him for after school.

It's fair enough to speculate whether or not they may become Wallabies if they make the starting Oz Schools test team - 3 or 4 of them every year usually do. But that is in full knowledge that they first have to prove that they can take their school ability into the cruel reality of Colts and Grade first. Most of them can't.

We also know that they will be competing against men who matured later than they did, both physically and in a rugby sense. Some boys don't get a chance to shine at a lesser rugby school, especially a state school, and they blossom late. And some men who wear the gold jersey don't even play rugby in their school years or precious little.
.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

^^^^^
Once again some very wise words about Poultry Accountancy Practices* from Lee Grant.

In his own words on the Rugby Club last Thursday night, Cadeyrn Neville was a Talented Rower and "converted" to rugby in 2009, having never played the game before that.

No schoolboy or colts stuff, straight into Marlins First Grade to Super Rugby to Men in Gold.

Chris Latham IIRC was a soccer player until 18.



*Chickens and Eggs counting.

 

[barbarian]

Guys can I reiterate a forum rule re negative comments about schoolboy players.

These boys are still in school and should not be talked about in the same critical way we do professional athletes. Therefore we only tolerate negative comments if they are reasoned and explained in a constructive fashion.

Simply saying a player was 'arrogant' or 'selfish' isn't on. Instead, say something like 'Player X isolated himself too frequently, he needs to be more aware of his support before taking quick taps'.

Generally the tone of this thread is very good, but can we all make sure we keep this overly harsh tone out of our posts.

Cheers.
.

 

[Lee Grant]

Once again some very wise words about Poultry Accountancy Practices* from Lee Grant.

In his own words on the Rugby Club last Thursday night, Cadeyrn Neville was a Talented Rower and "converted" to rugby in 2009, having never played the game before that.No schoolboy or colts stuff, straight into Marlins First Grade to Super Rugby to Men in Gold.
*Chickens and Eggs counting.

Actually, in 2009 he played 3rd and 4th Grade for Manly. In 2010 he was in the 1sts. He had played league for Narraweena before any of that.

Good sucking up though.
.

 

[Lee Grant]

I was at the game and obviously saw it from a different perspective. I and many of the other riverview parents that I was sitting with were of the opinion that he was one of the few riverview players that showed any enthusiasm. He would have been the last forward that I would have taken off. As he was the captain it was his decision to take quick taps and for the rest of the team to support him

Agree. Whitely was the man of the match in my eyes. Not bad in a losing team.

They had to play catch up rugby. For those who thought they should have kicked for goal: they were too far behind. For those who thought they should have taken the lineout: they should remember how many lineouts they lost that afternoon. For those who thought they should have taken a scrum: remember how much trouble the View scrummie was in getting clean ball when his scrum was being pushed back all day.

Quick taps were the right choices.

None of the Joeys people I talked with after the game mentioned him except in terms of being impressed with the Riverview, NSW and Australian Schools captain.
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