NSW CHS Rugby 2014

[Sideline Eye]

Has anyone seen the CHS and CCC teams, as well as the various ISA boys selected into their rep teams, play this season as yet, and have a preview / prediction for Sunday's matches at Rat Park???

NSWSRU U18 Trials @ Pittwater Rugby Park No.1 Sunday, 15 June ‘14CHS II V CNTY - 12.15PM
ISA II V CCC - 1.30PM
ISA I V CHS I - 2.45PM

Scores in the first trial at Forshaw Park (3 way round robin) were:
CCC def CHS 2 : 17-5
CHS 1 def CHS 2 : 12-5
CHS 1 def CCC : 17-7

The scores in second trial on Thursday at Cranbrook were:
CAS II drew CHS II : 26-all
CAS I def CHS I : 28-19

Hugh Jarse might have some comments to make...?

^^^
CCC will probably be a good match up for ISA 2's.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

History will be against the CHS lads.

At Under 16 level in 2012 and 2013 the ISA U16 have prevailed.

In U18 in 2013, ISA I prevailed over CHS I.

The ISA team this year appears to be a combination of the previous two years U16s and the returning veterans of the ISA I's from 2012. On that basis, CHS must go into this match as underdogs.

However, there are a number of fresh faces in CHS, and there are some bulky lads in their piggies. The fresh faces will not respect past results, and the bigger piggies may be able to frustrate ISA plan to get quick ruck ball on the front foot, which will most likely be the basis of their game plan.

 

[Monty Python]

Hugh, and other sage forum lurkers, what's the rationale behind the scheduling of the trial match series between the school associations, in the lead up to NSW I, NSW II and Combined States team selections?

It would seem at first appearance that they are somehow weighted towards the best matches at the end of each day's play, and as the trials series progresses. Eg, is it fair to say that the GPS I v CHS I match on Friday next week is supposed to be the top two teams competing in a 'pseudo final' of the trials series?

If so, is it time to give CAS or ISA a go at that slot, and relegate CHS I to a 'lower level' final v CCC or ACIES, for example, or ISA or CAS depending on who they were swapped with? Last year CHS was pretty much whomped by GPS I in the backs, though the forwards held their ground.

Thoughts?


Question repeated on the 2014 Australian Schools and National Championships thread

Here

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I think the draw on the final day is based on a traditional Grand Final formal. Believe it or not, there was a time when CHS were much stronger than they are at present relatively speaking. Is it part of a cycle, or a consequence of the AAGPS Premiership Arms Race? I suspect the latter and it will be an extraordinary year when CHS will be competitive against AAGPS. Same goes for CAS and ISA. AAGPS are close to being a victim of their own success in the Arms Race.

Schools are inherently traditional organisations and change occurs slowly, so I can't see the trials programme radically changing in the short term.

There are some inherent disparities in the whole trial process (to an extent).
As it stands CHS play 4 games (CCC, CAS, ISA, GPS), CAS play 3 games (CHS, ISA, GPS), CCC play 3 games (ISA II, CHS, Country?), GPS play 2 games (CAS, CHS), ISA play 2 games (CHS, CAS), Country (last year this year) play 2 games (CHS II, CCC?).

This assists the CHS boys get multiple chances in front of the selectors, because they don't have an opportunity to "impress" selectors and "build the CV" by being seen casually by the selectors in a weekend AAGPS, CAS or ISA match.

Key AAGPS games attract selectors as quasi trials to counter for the small number of "official" trials that they play.

While the extra games played by CHS, assists them to get recognised, the CCC lads are shafted good and proper. While the overall standard of the play is generally lower than the CHS and other associations, any rare gem in the CCC association only gets 3 games to impress, 2 of which are against "minion" associations, and probably don't attract the cream of the selectors. Similar to ISA boys with only 2 games, although they do seem to have some strong advocates for their boys in the selector ranks.

 

[Monty Python]

I realise CHS used to be stronger, as did the other school associations, before GPS started to be a magnet for the best rugby players in the Sydney region (for whatever reason). The list of representatives historically shows even James Ruse High School (bizarre to imagine these days) had a good number of boys in the NSW and National Schools teams in the past, along with Randwick, Homebush, Epping Boys, etc.

However, we shouldn't be too blinded by the GPS brilliance... I heard last week that something like 8 or 9 (don't quote me) of the current Waratah squad are from CHS / state schools. And a good number of the current Wallabies squad were public school boys as well. Perhaps someone in G&GRland can confirm the actual numbers...?

Given this, while the GPS juggernaut might be invincible in this age group, those who go on to succeed at high levels come from a much broader church of rugby players.

Check out this list of schools with 10 or more payers in Australia or Australia A teams (up to 2010): http://www.nswschoolsrugby.rugbynet.com.au/default.asp?id=174489.

As you might expect, Joeys (85), Kings (35), Iggies (26), Scots (26), Shore (18) and Newington (17) have huge representation.

However, historically, Epping Boys' High has more international schoolboy caps (11) than Barker (10), Trinity (10), Sydney Grammar (7), Canberra Gramma (6), Armidale School (5), and Oakhill College (4). James Ruse Agricultural HS has 4, Balgowlah HS has 4, Sydney Boys High has 17, and Brisbane State High School has 56.

 

[number 6]

the CCC lads are shafted good and proper. .

I agree on this. Francis Brown (Mackillop, Warnervale) was the only CCC rep in last year's Aussie School's squad and he was only called in at the last minute as a replacement for a fallen prop. He is back this year and should be, at the least, in the NSW 1 side. There are numerous other players who should come in to reckoning such as James Wilkinson (St Edwards, Gosford), whom is playing the house down for Gordon Colts, at hooker.
These are only two very strong players amongst many and hopefully the selectors can give as much weighting to their games as they do to the GPS/CAS/ISA matches. There is no doubting the quality of talent in the Sydney Private School Competitions, however, this does not mean that there aren't brilliantly talented rugby players elsewhere. Just look at the recent under 17s competition: Central Coast claimed the title and their team included numerous boys who will feature in the CCC side this year and will still be eligible next year.

Let's hope every young player is on an equal footing and if they play better than their opposite number, then they will be selected, regardless of where they are from.

 

[Sideline Eye]

Scores from today's 18s national schoolboys trial matches at Rat Park:

CHS II 55 def Country 10
CCC 27 def ISA II 24
ISA I 41 def CHS I 24 (7 tries to 4)

 

[Sideline Eye]

... the CCC lads are shafted good and proper.

I agree on this.

Slightly disadvantaged perhaps, but hard to see how they are "shafted good and proper" when you're talking about the difference between 3 and 4 games. Also, GPS, ISA and country only get 2.

The selectors are very diligent in their roles, they GE to every trial, and they are watching only 1 or 2 positions each trial, so if the boys can't make an impression in 2 or even 3 games, they probably aren't worth selecting.

 

[10to12]

Hard to see how they are "shafted good and proper" when you're talking about the difference between 3 and 4 games. Also, GPS, ISA and country only get 2.

SE The CCC boys had some big boys that I would love to see in the higher levels, to work out whether they can play at that higher level

 

[number 6]

SE The CCC boys had some big boys that I would love to see in the higher levels, to work out whether they can play at that higher level

What were your thoughts on the game, individual players etc.
Unfortunately I wasn't able to get there and watch; did anyone catch the under 16's games?

 

[10to12]

What were your thoughts on the game, individual players etc.
Unfortunately I wasn't able to get there and watch; did anyone catch the under 16's games?

Sorry 6. No specifics just thought they had some size and played well against the ISA 11s

 

[Monty Python]

History will be against the CHS lads.. [snip] .. CHS must go into this match as underdogs.

As usual HJ, spot on the money.

 

[Monty Python]

I think the draw on the final day is based on a traditional Grand Final formal. Believe it or not, there was a time when CHS were much stronger than they are at present [snip]
Schools are inherently traditional organisations and change occurs slowly.

Might need to change faster. Seems ISA should be the 'grand final' team in the trials. Why don't they base it on some sort of rolling tally of performances over the previous 5 or 10 years and match teams of roughly equal ability through the trials series?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

^^^^
Over the recent years ISA have been up and down like a Sex Workers undies.

They have choked against CAS more times than The Darkness have done likewise at the RWC.

Their CHS dominance is newfound as well. Part of a cycle, methinks, although CHS has suffered most from the GPS Arms Race.

 

[S'UP]

^^^^
Over the recent years ISA have been up and down like a Sex Workers undies.

They have choked against CAS more times than The Darkness have done likewise at the RWC.

Their CHS dominance is newfound as well. Part of a cycle, methinks, although CHS has suffered most from the GPS Arms Race.

Yes they have, but CHS need to have a look at selections i think it is all well and good to pick huge forwards but they blow up quickly and ISA had workers in their pack and CHS paid the price, multiple turnovers.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

^^^ Do not be too upset. The ISA loose forwards are top quality. To the best of my knowledge they are all in the NGS or whatever it is called now, and they will be pushing State selection. I think collectively they are probably better than the AAGPS loosies.

That being said, the CHS can expect more of the same against AAGPS on Friday. If their 2's can do it to them at training, and the ISA can do it to them on Sunday, then questions must be asked of the coaching staff and on field leaders if they haven't done something to address this deficiency before the AAGPS game.

 

[Monty Python]

... If their 2's can do it to them at training, ...

.
Sounds like you have a snout in the CHS camp HJ - why would the coaches choose piggies for their No. 1 side who can't muscle up against their No. 2 loosies squad at training...? Doesn't make a lot of sense, but I did hear they gave away too many turnovers on Sunday.

 

[Sideline Eye]

^^^ Do not be too upset. The ISA loose forwards are top quality. To the best of my knowledge they are all in the NGS or whatever it is called now, and they will be pushing State selection. I think collectively they are probably better than the AAGPS loosies.

That being said, the CHS can expect more of the same against AAGPS on Friday. If their 2's can do it to them at training, and the ISA can do it to them on Sunday, then questions must be asked of the coaching staff and on field leaders if they haven't done something to address this deficiency before the AAGPS game.

Looks like the CHS coaches and on field leaders did something to address their deficiencies. Lots of grit out there today and - most pleasingly - lots of ticker on display. I think the scoreline of 20-22 would have been a surprise to many. Nice work from CHS.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Looks like the CHS coaches and on field leaders did something to address their deficiencies. Lots of grit out there today and - most pleasingly - lots of real ticker on display. I think the shoreline of 20-22 would have been a surprise to many. Nice work from CHS.

Agree.
After about 20 minutes i thought GPS would run over the top but CHS stuck at it and were about 1 bounce of the ball out of it.

 

[Sideline Eye]

Geez. Eerily quiet on the threads right now..... ,