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NSW Invitational U16 Tournament 2014

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Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
What hope is there for the talented (and otherwise A grade player) who plays with his team mates at the Club he has been with since the Under 8's (not to mention a couple of elder siblings as well), when that club only has enough talent to play in B or C division?

Worse when that kid is going to St Nigel's of the Anonymous that doesn't have a "recognised" rugby "programme" and relies on his performance at SJRU games to get "noticed".

What if St Nigels of the Anonymous is in the Eastern Suburbs, and the SJRU Junior District that his club is affiliated with doesn't enter District Teams into NSW JRU Junior State Champs ?

Are there any kids in situations like this and, if there are, how many are there?
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
What if St Nigels of the Anonymous is in the Eastern Suburbs, and the SJRU Junior District that his club is affiliated with doesn't enter District Teams into NSW JRU Junior State Champs ?

Are there any kids in situations like this and, if there are, how many are there?

A number - but its a small number.
Theres a club team in 16's in the Wicks system
 

S'UP

Bill Watson (15)
I was stunned that a 14 year olds file could be marked don't look at, no wonder it is the same kids getting picked every year in the so called elite teams. Guess where the scout in our district came from? Tip he wasn't associated with a public school.
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
There were 5 boys at the carnival on the weekend in various teams who play U16 in the Randwick team


Randwick had a team in the state champs so obviously HJ was referring to another eastern suburbs club that didn't and doesn't beyond 13s usually.
Follow?
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
^^^ Nor St Nigels of the Anonymous.

5 squads of about 40 pro players in Super Rugby to feed the Wallabies.

10% turnover of pro player talent each year, means that the talented and elite programme only needs to produce 20 kids each year across the entire Australian Talent pool.

A small number of those will be late developers. Should the other 18 be manufactured from factories they have been in since they have been 13 years old, or just happen organically from within the overall ball curve of the rugby playing population?

Get more players in that bell curve and you get more at the extreme right hand edge of the bell curve.
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
Randwick had a team in the state champs so obviously HJ was referring to another eastern suburbs club that didn't.
Follow?


The higher up the age groups you go, the more districts decline to register a team for State Champs.

Easts struggles more than others. Some Districts seem to rely on village clubs recruiting kids who reside outside their footprint to keep their rep team numbers and quality up.

Some kids from Manly resorted to Facebook to recruit a U17 team recently, most of whom were former SJRU players then playing Colts because of a lack of ability to sustain interest in playing for SJRU village club teams in their age group group on the Insular Peninsular.

Plenty of other Districts struggle with numbers for JSC, which appears to be the only way that Kids from St Nigel's of the Anonymous (and equivalents) are ever going to get themselves in front of the Clipboards.
 

Brainstrust

Watty Friend (18)
Dear Inside Shoulder (or should that be 'Axe to Grind'), Its not hard to work out who you are hiding behind your snivelling little comments posted on this site. It is almost worth outing you, almost! Clearly you have some knowledge of the Simonsson boy's situation. The fact you knew his Father moved to Canberra for work (in other posts), that he has links to coaching (again posted by you), Bailey's previous Knox School attendance, time at the Gordon club etc. However, I wonder what the readers would think of such a two faced individual who sides up to them in public because their sons are friends but writes this crap about Bailey and his Father behind their backs! On discussing your comments with his Father it was interesting how he immediately nominated you! Being so close to the 'family' as you appear to be, perhaps you should have asked what the circumstances were concerning Bailey's selection on the weekend. But why would you let the truth get in the way of your agenda. Let's not worry about the games, or post one comment on how the teams played, which I assume you watched. Instead lets whinge about the selections over two players.

For the record I am informed:
  • Bailey was asked half way through the NSW Schools trainig camp if he could replace an injured player, he drove from Canberra to Sydney that evening to attend;
  • Simonsson's Father would not know the selcetors or coaches if he fell over them and your suggestiions of him being selcted for those reasons are way off the mark and insulting;
  • I am told Bailey assumed he would play Fullback or wherever they needed him, he didn't really care but was grateful to be asked. He even had a run at 10 when asked;
  • Every representative team will have players selected outside the trials that's common practice and common sense;
  • Bailey's father has told me that there has always been problems with selections with NSW Schools, Sydney Juniors etc but its not an easy task and not one he has ever been part of;
Finally, your comment about youtubing Simonsson's game against TSC is a classic. I assume you are referring to a missed tackle on the half back? Actually the rest of his game was very good but why would you let that stand in your way of putting the kid down at every opportunity. (Jealousy perhaps). What a pathetic little creature you are (little based on the size of your testicles not your waistline) who can sit here anonymously thowing ill informed criticism around about a 16 year old BOY! Grow up mate! Oh and now his Father knows about the comments I wouldn't be so quick to speak to him next time. I'm sure everyone looks forward to your denials and weasle like comments in reply and how its all about YOU having the right to an opinion!
I would like to endorse your remarks about the family being scrutinised here. I DO know them, and I can say that any insuation that they have used any influence is utter rubbish. In fact my experience with them is they go to lengths to distance themselves from the political influences. What a shame that someone who gives so much freely to rugby attracts such ill infirmed innuendo from such ill informed twits. The negative comments reflect more on those perpetrating them than on that family.
 

Craig Time

Frank Row (1)
@Inside Shoulder –

I am confused, at 9:28am yesterday in response to @Informed you said “I have never spoken to the boy his father or any other member of his family” and “I am not at all close to the family, I do not even know them”.

Why is it now when @Brainstrust further questions your comments, you turn around and say at 1:17pm today that “I have had PERSONAL experience to the contrary.

I have no connection to this family or story whatsoever, but can’t help but think you need to get your story straight – this seems like a vendetta against a family. My suggestion - maybe you should grow a pair and drop the faceless act and have a conversation with them in person and let us all move on from the conversation…

My guess is (a) you had a failure of a football career which is why you reference the kids fathers football connections (b) the kid in question knocked your kid out of a team or (c) who knows… it is easy to hid behind a computer screen and pass off dribble as intellect.
 

nothismum

Frank Nicholson (4)
Making a personal attack is exactly what you are doing CraigTime. I have read the comments and they are just querying the process rather than the player. Not sure what you are reading. I for one enjoy the banter and innuendo as long as it is not threatening which is what one poster did, threatened to expose the blogger. Bit precious.
 

Craig Time

Frank Row (1)
@nothismum –

Let me get this straight, you actually believe that @Inside Shoulder has only been querying the process not the player? Okay yes I agree we must be reading two very different things - I am reading the '2014 NSW Invitational’ thread for your reference, page 3 to page 7… Yes that is correct; you have to read through pages of comments from @Inside Shoulder referencing the kid… So no, I don’t agree with you that he is only questioning the process but thank you for sharing your opinion with me.



If what I have written is as you say a personal attack, at least I am making it against an adult as opposed to a kid. But no, merely I was querying why @Inside Shoulder would state he doesn’t know the family one moment, and then does a complete 180 the next… Him referencing that he has had a “personal experience to the contrary”makes me feel quite certain that his comments are fuelled by this – and therefore driven by personal motives and as a result yes, a personal attack against the family. This in turn makes me question his credibility…
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
You don't have to know someone to watch what they do.
If you want to know more ask nicely.
The issue is the process and there's no question the kid can play but there's also no question that other 13s can play and they turned up @ Turramurra and they played 13.
 

S'UP

Bill Watson (15)
IS, Craig Time and Informed, I don't know any of you or the boy or family concerned. I have read the so called offending comments from IS and cannot see your point, however if you know the family and boy I can see how you could have that perception. Thats why people don't usually name players or families. So from my perspective it would be good to get back to talking about selections and how fair or unfair they are and how they could possibly be fixed and not finger poking each other.
 

oldandslow

Herbert Moran (7)
I know nothing about the selection process, have no involvement in junior rugby and no agenda. But I was there on Sunday. The kid in question, playing 13, was head and shoulders the best player out there. He showed extreme pace and evasiveness, an excellent kicking game, passed well and despite spending 10 in the bin (in a 50 minute game) was comfortably best on ground. However questionable the selection was (I have no idea), it's not his fault he got picked and nobody who saw the game could seriously suggest he didn't deserve to be there. All credit to him and I for one hope to see a lot more of him.
 

Brainstrust

Watty Friend (18)
My understanding is the boy turned up to trial for the Presidents (GPS ) team and was injured, knee or ankle ? And had to retire from the trial. If it's anything like the schools opens process then injury is an acceptable excuse for non participation in the tournament and those boys are eligible for selection at any time.
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
That doesn't make it the right selection process, no matter how many times you repeat it.
It's like watching only half the super 15 teams and picking the wallabies from that. And its worse here because the contenders do not play each other except in this tournament, as a rule.
The evil in this is partly hidden: what is it that led to a particular team, in my analogy, being watched? Inevitably it's reputation (no one could suggest it's random) that was determined when? Reviewed when? In what company?
By the way, when it happens in opens it provokes criticism as well. why? Because it gives the appearance of bias and prejudgment.
This, as usua in junior rugbyl, is a defect in the way the adults run the show.
 

Man on the hill

Alex Ross (28)
It's really clear - if you want the best team, your process has to be sufficiently"tight" so that it provides opportunity for all and transparency in the decision making.

BUT (& it's a huge but) - the process also needs to be sufficiently flexible so that talent is not bypassed or omitted due to non talent reasons, i.e. you need a process to effectively manage exceptions.

The problem arises only when the exceptions are regularly in the majority.

Funny thing is - ultimately (& usually) the kids will know which kids are the goods and where they each sit in the talent pecking order.
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
Use School playground rules to select the teams?

The biggest and baddest kids take turns to choose the teams, one kid at a time, alternating picks.
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
Now the inaugural Invitational is all done and dusted, what advice do we have for the organisers of the 2015 NSW Invitational (apart from the politics of selection)?
 
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