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Pumas vs Wallabies - Sunday 9th October @ Twickenham

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Bullrush

John Hipwell (52)
I missed the 2 Wallaby games prior to this last weekend's game vs SA but I really don't see the issue with Folau. He was hardly terrible on the weekend.

I just took a quick look at the GAGR MOTM threads for 2016 and apart from those 2 games, Folau is in a lot of peoples picks for most games.

Again, I don't know how he played against SA and ARG in Australia but was it THAT bad that he needs to be dropped?! He has been pretty much the only attacking weapon in the backline all year.

You guys honestly jump on the bandwagon too quick for some players and are then too ready to jump off looking for the next big thing to come thru town.
 

hammertimethere

Trevor Allan (34)
Based on what is available for this weekend (and the wallabies post game chat about "we were better than we were in Brisbane but didn't win" my bet is we'll see
1 - Sio (?injured, Slipper didn't cover himself in glory vs Boks)
2 - Moore
3 - Kepu
4 - Coleman
5 - Simmons
6 - Mumm
7 - Hooper
8 - Timani

9 - Genia
10 - Quade
11 - Hodge
12 - Foley
13 - Kerevi
14 - DHP
15 - Folau

I would prefer to see
1 - Sio
2 - Moore
3 - Kepu
4 - Douglas
5 - Coleman
6 - Fardy
7 - Hooper
8 - Timani

9 - Genia
10 - Cooper
11 - Naivalu
12 - Foley
13 - Kerevi
14 - Folau
15 - DHP

16 - Hanson (to actually be used this time)
17 - Slipper
18 - AAAA
19 - Arnold
20 - Houston
21 - Phipps
22 - TK
23 - Hodge

Some pace on the edges will make a massive difference + we're at the point with Izzy where he seems to need a change. Also, DHP performed more strongly in both ball carrying and kicking/field coverage roles last week. Hodge covers 12 and hopefully will get a run there late in the game.

Timani has been with the squad for months and reportedly training the house down. With all the injuries it's definitely time to let the big dog off the leash and see if he can play as hard as he looks. If his hands at the back of the scrum or the fitness in his legs prove particularly problematic then Houston can come on for as long as required. The lineout situation is just a huge achilles heel for us at the moment, but I think we can't excuse some of the useless flopping into contact both with and without the ball by our tight 5, and the second row is the only area where we have some ability to make changes without the quality dropping off drastically (See THP for example). At least Douglas is likely to hit a million rucks and try to fucking clatter someone in D.
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
I don't understand the Douglas love.

With line out issues anybody who's going to offer significant line out strength is going to hurt.

Plus he's also guilty of flopping on rucks. He hits a few, and some he has impact, but has a low defensive work rate across full games and is regularly our worst runner.

Most importantly did him coming onto the field help any aspect in any noticeable way on Saturday?

No. We still lost rucks where he was involved. We still failed to dominantly win ball at rucks when he was involved at times.
 
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Micheal

Nicholas Shehadie (39)
I don't understand the Douglas love.

With line out issues anybody who's going to offer significant line out strength is going to hurt.

Plus he's also guilty of flopping on rucks. He hits a few, and some he has impact, but has a low defensive work rate across full games and is regularly our worst runner.

Most importantly did him coming onto the field help any aspect in any noticeable way on Saturday?

No. We still lost rucks where he was involved. We still failed to dominantly win ball at rucks when he was involved at times.

I thought he muscled up quite well and added some much needed physcaility - forced a knock on with a big well timed hit.

. . . and before you know its TWAS vs Micheal for Simmons vs. Douglas round 24 :p. We're bloody broken records.
 
T

TOCC

Guest
There's enough versatility elsewhere in the forward pack, it helps when Mumm keeps getting selected out of position.
Mumm can play lock, Timani can cover 6, Fardy can also cover lock... open side is going to be lacking cover regardless of who starts.

Houston hasn't been in the Wallabies set-up for months, Timani has.. I would be very surprised if Cheika went with Houston over Timani for the starting role
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
Michael,

I won't say it's a great article, because that would be subjective and only based on who agrees with it, but Nick Bishop the ex British Lions analyst wrote a well researched and supported article on the roar outlining Douglas' poor input from the bench anyway. He shows a good example of Douglas flopping on a ruck failing to make any impact leading to a turnover.

http://www.theroar.com.au/2016/10/0...-lost-from-perth-to-pretoria/#comment-5211482
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
Michael,

I won't say it's a great article, because that would be subjective and only based on who agrees with it, but Nick Bishop the ex British Lions analyst wrote a well researched and supported article on the roar outlining Douglas' poor input from the bench anyway. He shows a good example of Douglas flopping on a ruck failing to make any impact leading to a turnover.

http://www.theroar.com.au/2016/10/0...-lost-from-perth-to-pretoria/#comment-5211482
Indeed. And yet a few Tests back, Douglas was 2nd highest ruck involvements from the Wallabies over 80 odd minutes. He seems to be very inconsistent lately, and he is far from alone in this among the Wallaby forwards. An area the coaches really need to work on. And obviously the players too.
But we'll still be having these discussions over the next month with regularity I'm guessing, sadly.
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
Cyclo I don't think it's inconsistency. He's just been on a downward trend.

I don't think it's any coincidence that Douglas weak form has coincided with playing against the AB's and Boks. The fact his despite all the praise for him last year, he was never on the field against either of our most regular opponents for more than 10 minutes.

He had an excellent work rate in the first Bledisloe even if his impact wasn't as good as expected. The fact is that no players' really was. But in that game he had something like 33 ruck involvements, 10 tackles and 6 runs in his 80 minutes. But it should be noted that in 49 minutes Simmons made 1 less run, 1 more tackle and still hit 10 rucks.

That's great involvement from Douglas. Over the next 2 games he made 11 total tackles and 3 total runs in 160 minutes. He still hit over 25 rucks both games, but despite less carrying and tackling his ruck involvement declined. So he went from 49 involvements to 35 for both of the next 2 games.

Then on the weekend in his 35 minutes, knowing that he was on for less than a half and therefore not needing to pace himself, he 14 total involvements for that 35. Pro Rata'd that is then 32 involvements. So from the bench with a short sport he's doing less per minute essentially.

Interestingly him and Simmons have the exact same involvements when you base it on per 80 minutes.

But I think Simmons are dragged down because he went off injured in 2 games, and the only game he played 80 was the Argentina game where Australia only secured 36 rucks (the next lowest in any game we played was 66) meaning his 9 rucks in 80 minutes meant he was still involved in 25% of the rucks we secured (that said, it's not high - around 30-50% of total rucks won seems to be the high end for players), but drag his total down significantly as it accounts for close to half the minutes we played.

For Douglas to partner Coleman surely he needs to be a better LO option, but he needs to maintain his work rate from Bledisloe 1. Coleman offers the impact to justify floating in and out at times, plus he is great in the line out. Douglas offers the occasional big tackle, or big clean out, but still plenty of ineffective rucks and runs, and in his career has played 80 minutes of testing rugby whilst barely even touching the ball.

Anything less than that work rate goes back to exactly what Forcefan identified during the RWC where compared to the All Blacks, or Tight 5 just doesn't offer enough of a work rate.
 

Scrubber2050

Mark Ella (57)
I think the biggest reason why Cheika might be hesitant to start Timani is his work at the back of the scrum. That said I would pick him this weekend with Houston on the bench as cover.

Fardy should start ahead of Mumm who hasn't done enough in the last two starts to warrant staying ahead of Fardy.

I would play a 6:2 bench this weekend with Phipps and Folau as the reserve backs. DHP to fullback and Naivalu to start on the wing.


Wow - 5 changes
 

Scrubber2050

Mark Ella (57)
Well the Aries in England

The Report Card after a slight majority of test matches (in 2016) is not looking too good when you put it on paper.

Total matches to date (2016) = 8

Wins to date = 2 (and not overly convincing at best)

Success Rate = 25%

Card would read well Below Average

Question is WHY and how to FIX it ?
 

Joe Blow

Peter Sullivan (51)
Is it time to start Arnold with Coleman? Both good in the set piece and around the paddock. They may not have the legs for a full 80 but they would go well for the first 60.

Start these two with Simmons or Douglas on the bench.
 

Lindommer

Steve Williams (59)
Staff member
This match is a golden opportunity to try some fresh ideas to see if they work. If our second best 15 can't beat the Argies after they've played seven tests this year with their shallow pool of eligible players, well, we ought to give the game away. My team:

1. Slipper
2. Moore
3. Kepu
4. Coleman
5. Douglas
6. Fardy
7. Hooper
8. Timani
9. Genia
10. Cooper
11. Naivalu
12. Hodge
13. Kerevi
14. Folau
15. DHP
16. Hanson
17. Ala'alatoa/Sio
18. Ala'alatoa/Robertson
19. Arnold
20. Houston
21. Phipps
22. Foley
23. Kuridrani

Comments:
  • Moore MUST back up his Pretoria performance or a line hovers over his name for future selection in gold. I'd be inclined to let him know he's going to be taken off around the 55/60 minute mark.
  • If Sio's injury's troubling him to any extent he should be rested. After Scott's great start last week he slowed down considerably, maybe therein lies a clue.
  • Timani to get a shitload of skills work from Mick Byrne this week to improve his handling.
  • Whomever's running the lineout sessions at training to put in quite a bit of overtime this week.
  • ALL forwards to be on notice to up both their workrates and physicality.
  • I've deliberately selected Hodge and DHP in their usual Super positions. To my eye they're both going to be integral members of Oz teams for years to come and it's about time they got the chance to show how good they can play where they're most comfortable. A second playmaker? Both Reece and Dane have enough skills to take a ball from a breakdown but, I want to see how a big 12 goes for a change.
  • Cooper to THROW SOME SOFT PASSES especially to those right next to him.
  • Genia to get 55/60 minutes.
  • Folau to get a change of scenery to freshen him up.
  • The entire squad to light candles at Westminster Abbey imploring God's protection for Michael Hooper.
 

Twoilms

Trevor Allan (34)
Here's my team for shits and giggles:

1. Slipper (c)
2. Hanson
3. Kepu
4. Coleman
5. Arnold
6. Timani
7. Hooper
8. Houston
9. Genia(vc)
10. Foley
11. Naivalu
12. Hodge (with instructions not to punt any shots at goal sideways from 70m out)
13. Kerevi
14. DHP
15. Kellaway
16. Latu
17. Alaálatoa
18. Robertson
19. Douglas
20. Dempsey
21. Phipps
22. Hunt
23. Folau

Yes i have an irrational hatred of Cooper and his silly head.

Edit: can anyone tell me why Foley wasn't taking those kicks at 45m out. Sure edge of his range ordinarily, but probably in it at altitude. Hodge clearly can't direct his fuck-off huge thunderbastards.
 

Scoey

Tony Shaw (54)
The next big problem will be who covers for Hooper at 7 if he's injured. I don't see anyone really capable of playing 7 in the squad.

If only this guy had played 45 more Tests..... ;)


LFG.jpg
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
Fuck those glasses have a strong shade of blue Twolims.

Kellaway? Part of the issue with potentially moving Folau to fullback is he doesn't defend there. Which is mostly because Kellaway was terrible under the high ball.

What reasoning do you have to say he should be playing for the Wallabies? Defensively he's a negative because of his high ball issues.

He averaged about 56m per 80 mins which is not really high for a back 3 players, averaged close to 2 knock ons per 80 mins, 2 missed tackles per 80 (for 4 made - 50% success rate).

He had just over 1 line break per game and 2 defenders beaten, but again, back 3 players generally top these stats. And to compare to others, Eto Nabuli had 19 line breaks in 1141 minutes compared to Kellaway with 10 in 772 minutes.

Kellaway should be nowhere near. He's nowhere near safe and he hardly provides the attacking threat to justify selection in spite of it.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
Kellaway hasn't played for weeks after taking a knock, but he is probably one of the most talented players I have seen for years, he has those key strengths, poise and time.
 

Scrubber2050

Mark Ella (57)
[quote="Brumby Runner, post: 883932, member: 1034


The next big problem will be who covers for Hooper at 7 if he's injured. I don't see anyone really capable of playing 7 in the squad.
[/quote]

I really don't worry about Hooper getting injured. Has to be the most resilient and durable bloke on the field, for either side.
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
FP, that may be the case, but unless he's able to convert that into run meters, line breaks, tries, try assists, line break assists or any sort of attacking benefit, I'm not sure how useful it is, or if he actually has it at Super Rugby level or higher.
 
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