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QLD Reds 2010

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RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
I don't think I'd bother with Braid. Happy enough with Shaw I guess, as long as we get Rocky and keep MMM.

Hooker is the spot for me. We need a test hooker. Who's available? Bismark? Would love him. Regan? Bruno? Hore?

Hardmans gone you would think, and I just think we lack depth at hooker, such a vital position. To get a test vet to harden up Hanson and Fainga'a would be immense.
 
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formeropenside

Guest
Shaw looks the goods - a real Queenslander, a pile of turnovers last night, and strong running. In 2-3 years he and Pocock could have the kind of duels Smith and Waugh now do.

Bad luck Beau Robinson. You should have come north a while back if you were planning to.

I'm not so sure I would ditch Braid though.

It does seem Hardman is gone, which is a shame: he played some great rugby in these last few weeks: not flashy but damn solid. Hopefully he can back up again next year, but who knows.

Houston had a good running game, but then often lost the ball in contact, and was unsighted in defence. There's obvious talent there, but too little application.

Counter ruck seemed better, but this is an area we need to lift. And the scrum. Your scrum can never be too good.
 

Biffo

Ken Catchpole (46)
The Reds have far too many imports already. It would be much better for you to develop and retain your own talent.

Something is wrong with the Reds. Review thoroughly their season. Forget about the injury excuse - when the Reds had almost all their best available, they sucked. The impact of the injuries was to make them suck more.

Why were the Reds so bad when their best were available? I don't know but possible answers lie in the heads of the players, in the coach and in the management - any one or all three.
 

spectator

Bob Davidson (42)
Agreed - too many imports. When you have a look at the number of Qld exports I guess you have to query the culture of the place. There should have been a far greater focus on homegrown talent a long time ago.

Can't put too much of the blame on Mooney, Whittaker and co. They have had an awfully tall mountain to climb and are still relatively inexperienced.
 

liquor box

Greg Davis (50)
I dont think you can have too many imports, but you can certainly have poor quality imports.

Forget anything but the skill level of the player, if all your players are above average then you should be a decent team.

There are currently players who are below average and they need to be gone asap
 

spectator

Bob Davidson (42)
Not sure if you're being facetious Noddy, but I dont see an icon anywhere.

I would consider McLinden, Turinui, Weekes, Byrne, Faainga brothers etc.. to be imports, from other states and/or codes.
 

Lindommer

Steve Williams (59)
Staff member
Surely it would be better to create a culture where blokes like McLinden, Turinui, Weeks, Byrnes, the Faaingas et al WANT to move to Queensland to improve their rugby. And blokes like Pocock, Brown, JOC (James O'Connor), Mowen, Moore, To'omua, Elsom, Chapman, Heenan, etc., don't want to move elsewhere as things are so rosy a Wobbly jumper's there for the asking. I can understand why Grey, Cannon and others moved interstate to get out of an incumbent's shadow, but Queensland rugby's got no one but itself to blame for the schemozzle it's in. Berrick Barnes' blast to the suits should be a call to arms for serious rugby supporters north of the Tweed.

Why do so many players feel moving to the Brumbies will be a positive influence for their rugby careers? QRU executive, discuss.
 

RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
Sorry, imports to me means one of the marquee spots. I agree that we have too many imports, but probably more accurately too many journey men. But Brisbane club rugby is shit. We produce crap. Is Brendan McKibbon the only legitimate club rugby player to come through that system to play state in recent years? Andrew Shaw is arguable I guess (of whom I have been fairly underwhelmed - think he's lightyears behind most other opensides on contract around the country. Didn't see any turnovers, so perhaps I should watch the game again. Tough, yeah I guess, in that he keeps on trying, but he seems largely inneffectual). can't count those average kiwi props that had to fill in. I'll have to go through my files tomorrow to check on that, but I can't think of anyone the club system has produced in itself.
 
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formeropenside

Guest
Noddy, I saw at least 4 turnovers by Shaw in the Canes game (although one was lost in a counter ruck after the steal when Shaw laid it back).
 

spectator

Bob Davidson (42)
Noddy said:
Sorry, imports to me means one of the marquee spots. I agree that we have too many imports, but probably more accurately too many journey men. But Brisbane club rugby is shit. We produce crap. Is Brendan McKibbon the only legitimate club rugby player to come through that system to play state in recent years? Andrew Shaw is arguable I guess (of whom I have been fairly underwhelmed - think he's lightyears behind most other opensides on contract around the country. Didn't see any turnovers, so perhaps I should watch the game again. Tough, yeah I guess, in that he keeps on trying, but he seems largely inneffectual). can't count those average kiwi props that had to fill in. I'll have to go through my files tomorrow to check on that, but I can't think of anyone the club system has produced in itself.

Couple of questions Noddy.

When did Brisbane club rugby become shit and why?
What system or comp did the likes of Horwill, Holmes and Hardman come through?
 

RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
spectator said:
Noddy said:
Sorry, imports to me means one of the marquee spots. I agree that we have too many imports, but probably more accurately too many journey men. But Brisbane club rugby is shit. We produce crap. Is Brendan McKibbon the only legitimate club rugby player to come through that system to play state in recent years? Andrew Shaw is arguable I guess (of whom I have been fairly underwhelmed - think he's lightyears behind most other opensides on contract around the country. Didn't see any turnovers, so perhaps I should watch the game again. Tough, yeah I guess, in that he keeps on trying, but he seems largely inneffectual). can't count those average kiwi props that had to fill in. I'll have to go through my files tomorrow to check on that, but I can't think of anyone the club system has produced in itself.

Couple of questions Noddy.

When did Brisbane club rugby become shit and why?
What system or comp did the likes of Horwill, Holmes and Hardman come through?

1) dunno, when Sydney clubs starting to buy our best players - Hewat and Warwick all the way up to Richard BRown and Pat O'Connor and Scott Daruda now.

2) they all came through the underage system didn't they? Hardman's old though, he may have come through the club system, but that was back in the 90s. Horwill and Holmes just came through the underage teams. There is now no reward for good club performances are there? When was the last time a Brisbane club rugby player of the year got a pro contract the next year? McKibbon last year was probably the closest. But who else has won in? Charles Wylie or whatever from the Sunny Coast? Matt BRandon? Dan McCOnaghy (or whatever)?

James Sua from Sunnybank I think got a rookie contract but was unsighted and never contracted again.

Best players in the comp and nowhere near Super 14 quality.

IMHO of course...
 

spectator

Bob Davidson (42)
Brisbane Club rugby will always be compromised by the extended unavailability of the States best. Not sure how to fix that. The inclusion of S14 players will make it stronger for the rest of the season. I also think we blood too many kids too young. The number of 'Colts qualified' kids running around in Prems is staggering.

The other thing that would help to retain talent and improve the standard of club rugby is the ability to compete for positions in a couple of Qld teams that are part of a National Comp. Shit I wish we still had the ARC!
 

Biffo

Ken Catchpole (46)
Lindommer said:
Surely it would be better to create a culture where blokes like McLinden, Turinui, Weeks, Byrnes, the Faaingas, Leroy, Taylor et al WANT to move to Queensland to improve their rugby. And blokes like Pocock, Brown, JOC (James O'Connor), Mowen, Moore, To'omua, Elsom, Chapman, Heenan, etc., don't want to move elsewhere as things are so rosy a Wobbly jumper's there for the asking. I can understand why Grey, Cannon and others moved interstate to get out of an incumbent's shadow, but Queensland rugby's got no one but itself to blame for the schemozzle it's in. Berrick Barnes' blast to the suits should be a call to arms for serious rugby supporters north of the Tweed.

Why do so many players feel moving to the Brumbies will be a positive influence for their rugby careers? QRU executive, discuss.

Two added, but the "et al" retained.

I saw Rodney Blake playing in France last night. That's the 4th or 5th time I have seen him this year. He is now, believe it or not, a real scrummaging weapon. He was a poachee to Queensland but who punted him from there? Eddie the Steady? ARU refusal of a top-up?

BTW, I get to see 5-6 European games a week on a channel called Eurosports Pacific Channel. If you have cable/ satellite, it's very worthwhile.

Last night, for example, I watched Bayon v Stade Francais and the England Premiership final London Irish v Leicester. In the latter, our old mate Peter Hewat was at it again - dropped a marvellous goal from 40+ metres out in the first few minutes, but later gifted Leicester a try with a shocking decision for a kick and terrible execution - old Tah habits die very hard. Leicester ground out a 10-9 win.
 
S

Spook

Guest
Biffo said:
Lindommer said:
Surely it would be better to create a culture where blokes like McLinden, Turinui, Weeks, Byrnes, the Faaingas, Leroy, Taylor et al WANT to move to Queensland to improve their rugby. And blokes like Pocock, Brown, JOC (James O'Connor), Mowen, Moore, To'omua, Elsom, Chapman, Heenan, etc., don't want to move elsewhere as things are so rosy a Wobbly jumper's there for the asking. I can understand why Grey, Cannon and others moved interstate to get out of an incumbent's shadow, but Queensland rugby's got no one but itself to blame for the schemozzle it's in. Berrick Barnes' blast to the suits should be a call to arms for serious rugby supporters north of the Tweed.

Why do so many players feel moving to the Brumbies will be a positive influence for their rugby careers? QRU executive, discuss.

Two added, but the "et al" retained.

I saw Rodney Blake playing in France last night. That's the 4th or 5th time I have seen him this year. He is now, believe it or not, a real scrummaging weapon.

Wow, I saw him at the beginning of the season (last year) and he was getting smashed in every scrum. That's a huge and welcome turn around. The Force should be going for him.
 

RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
Wow, this is interesting. The most interesting bit, to me, is the 2nd senior player (after Berrick) in a week to come out and ALLUDE to the fact that the QRU themselves are still an issue with players. We won't sign new players if that's a factor.

Queensland's most-capped rugby player, Sean Hardman, has no intention of living the nightmare one more time and will only play on next season if he is convinced the Reds' players and organisation are utterly committed to reaching the Super 14 finals.

Many observers interpreted 32-year-old Hardman's handclaps to the Suncorp Stadium crowd, when he was substituted late in Saturday's season-ending match against the Hurricanes, as a gesture of farewell.

In fact, they were intended as an expression of thanks to the 19,025 loyal Reds fans who turned up to support a team that has continually frustrated them in its final match of yet another miserable season in which it finished second-last on the ladder.

Yet, at the same time, Hardman was sharing that same frustration and unless he feels things are going to change dramatically next season, he truly may have said his goodbyes after a record 137 matches for Queensland.

"I'm a very competitive and very proud sort of person and there is no way I'd want to go around again next year just to finish on this sort of sour note," said Hardman, who has asked for - and been granted - a couple of weeks now that the Reds' season has ended to decide whether to continue his rugby career.

In a season in which the Reds' performances fluctuated wildly, from the highs of outstanding victories over the Sharks and Blues to the lows of their disinterested, bumbling losses to the Lions and Brumbies, Hardman was a rare model of consistency.

Never a flashy player, even by the modest standards of hookers, he nonetheless was solid and dependable throughout. There were fears at the start of the season that the loss of Test hooker Steve Moore to the Brumbies would destabilise the Queensland scrum and lineouts but, if anything, the performance of the set pieces was one of the few significant pluses to emerge from this year's campaign.

Certainly, if any injury was to befall Moore or Waratahs hooker Tatafu Polota-Nau in the coming months, Wallabies coach Robbie Deans could turn to Hardman in the sure knowledge that he would not let the Australia side down.

Yet, like another player who captained the Reds this season, Berrick Barnes, Hardman felt at times that not everyone was putting in equally.

"It's frustrating ... the biggest challenge as a player is to get your head right to play against other men in a full-on confrontational sport," Hardman said. "But you can tell when guys aren't turning up on the night. It only takes a couple in a team sport for everything to come unstuck.

"I'm not prepared to say yea or nay about playing on yet. It comes down to (head coach) Phil Mooney and the staff and how they feel about me being around. The question I ask myself is: 'Am I a part of the solution?' You want to be value-adding. If not, walk away."

A team as young as the Reds desperately needs its few hard heads like Hardman and former All Blacks flanker Daniel Braid - now accorded high-priority retention status as his deal with Llanelli has collapsed - to stick around to show the way.
 

Scarfman

Knitter of the Scarf
I don't see anything about the QRU here :nta:

Almost the opposite - it's up to the players to front up. Maybe Quade?
 

RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
oh I have no doubt that he is referring to Quade and a few others (Leroy etc), but the mention of the "organisation".....hang on, I see what you're saying..Hardman actually hasn't mentioned them (or hasn't been quoted as such).

ok, perhaps I am being alarmist...but we are crap.
 

Lindommer

Steve Williams (59)
Staff member
I noticed his dig first time round too, Noddy, and on a careful rereading I reckon he's having a go at both the players AND the QRU ("organisation"). If the cap fits for Houston and Cooper they should wear it. It isn't if they haven't had enough opportunities including a Wallaby tour each at a very young age.

On another note, who've been the strength and conditioning coaches the last few years? They should be shot. A simple reduction in injuries would go a long way towards improving the Reds' performances.
 

Gagger

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
Staff member
Any team in which a back rower can put on what looks like two stone during the season surely has conditioning problems, let alone the injury laden clusterfuck they are.

NSW meanwhile put same team in week after week (sometimes a little too monotonously in the backs!) and were still tackling their nuts off at altitude at the end of the season.

More than a few times I saw Hardman trailing behind and pointing at an attacker he'd failed to tackle as if to say "I set him up for you Berrick" or "You need to tackle this one Mark"
 
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