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Rebels 2012

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James Buchanan

Trevor Allan (34)
Well, with the news that Kurtley Beale is coming down to Melbourne we really do have some concrete matters to discuss regarding the Rebels 2012 team. Which other players are likely? How are we going to keep some of the great young players we've unearthed? Who are we going to get rid of (remembering we lose 2 internationals from our concessions each year)? Where are we going to find some quality australian piggies?
 

en_force_er

Geoff Shaw (53)
I think 1 of the international spots we free up will have to go to a lock, with either O'Neil or MacDonald moving on.

The Rebels surprised everyone by managing to show great 2nd row depth which nobody expected. They really do have 4 locks that could easily start Super rugby, hell if Pyle stays about he could be pressing for Wallaby duties come the Lions tour with Sharpie being past his mid 30s by then.

I think there are plenty of great Aussie locks roaming around but they are all in the Qld system. Perhaps they could throw 1 our way? Even their academy lock McDuling is impressive.
 

James Buchanan

Trevor Allan (34)
Yeah, I am surprised how well Pyle and Campbell have gone. But that's largely 'it' for our Aussie lock stocks; we have Luke Jones (but he seems more like a 6 to me) and that kid who was in schoolboys last year, used to play for Scotch, but he's raw as.

I'm pretty sure that if we're going to move on either Hoani McDonald or Kevin O'Neil, by choice it would be McDonald. We have much better cover for our backrow in my mind than we do for 2m tall locks.

Speaking of Jones. As I see him as more of a backrow option, where do people see him fitting in? Is he the replacement for Gareth Delve when he leaves? Does he come in at 6 and Jarrod Saffy moves to 7 (I've noticed Saffy doing a lot more pilfering recently)?

That raises the interesting question of Michael Lipman. The bloke is Australian by birth, but English by representation. He can't legitimately play Super 15 for an Australian team unless they use their marquee contract on him. Thus there is a quandary of what happens if he has moved back to Aus permanently and would like to keep playing Rugby. From what we've seen this year, he certainly is 'good enough' to play Super Rugby.
 

en_force_er

Geoff Shaw (53)
Yeah, I am surprised how well Pyle and Campbell have gone. But that's largely 'it' for our Aussie lock stocks; we have Luke Jones (but he seems more like a 6 to me) and that kid who was in schoolboys last year, used to play for Scotch, but he's raw as.

Byrnes is a perfectly decent player and isn't particularly old, he could be around for a while. He seems to have fallen out of the coach's favor though, perhaps his penalty count pisses them off.

The Scotch lock is a while off I think, at least 3 years. He should of done with the Skevs/Syd Uni No8 did and go straight to Sydney, he's killing it in the Shute Shield at 19 and he's as Victorian as they come.


I'm pretty sure that if we're going to move on either Hoani McDonald or Kevin O'Neil, by choice it would be McDonald. We have much better cover for our backrow in my mind than we do for 2m tall locks.

True, wouldn't Scott Fardy be a great replacement for the lock/6 role. See abc iView if you need to understand my reasoning.

Speaking of Jones. As I see him as more of a backrow option, where do people see him fitting in? Is he the replacement for Gareth Delve when he leaves? Does he come in at 6 and Jarrod Saffy moves to 7 (I've noticed Saffy doing a lot more pilfering recently)?

He'll be playing lock in this year's U20 WC but he's probably a 6 but a lock in a pinch, think Mitch Chapman. Unless he fills out substantially I think he'll be knocked around too much at 8 off the back of a scrum.

That raises the interesting question of Michael Lipman. The bloke is Australian by birth, but English by representation. He can't legitimately play Super 15 for an Australian team unless they use their marquee contract on him. Thus there is a quandary of what happens if he has moved back to Aus permanently and would like to keep playing Rugby. From what we've seen this year, he certainly is 'good enough' to play Super Rugby.

He has been great but he is old as. I'd say his replacement would be the Rebel Rising/Southern Districts open sider, he looks good and is about 21.
 

James Buchanan

Trevor Allan (34)
Whoops! I totally forgot about Byrnes. We're not in as bad a spot as I thought then. Although I'll check out Fardy.

I've been hearing great things about De Guigand also, hopefully he continues the Rebels/Sydney Uni trend and comes back to play for us when he's done his time in Colts there.

Regarding Lipman, I was more thinking about what the bloke himself wants. If he actively wants to stay in Australia playing Super Rugby it seems a little incongruous that as an Australian he cannot. But, that would be the case under the rules as I understand them.
 

Lindommer

Steve Williams (59)
Staff member
That raises the interesting question of Michael Lipman. The bloke is Australian by birth, but English by representation.

Michael was born in London, came here as a very young tacker. That's why he moved to England to try out for the Poms when he realised Dwyer wasn't going to give him a start at the Tahs. Australia should always be able to find a spot for quality players like Michael in our professional rugby ranks.
 

James Buchanan

Trevor Allan (34)
Here's the media release for those who want it: http://www.melbournerebels.com.au/News/ArticleDetails/tabid/270/ArticleID/2173/Default.aspx

I agree, I'm stoked to hear we retained Pyle and Phipps. Going on recent form are two blue chip young players who are going from strength to strength. To keep them around augers well for the franchise.

All this recruiting raises some questions as to whereplayers are going to fit. On form this year we'd want to keep Phipps, Snorky, Gerrado and Vuna in the backline definitely, possibly Kingi. If we keep Cipriani, he'd be a goer too but I doubt we will at this stage. There's still rumours about JOC (James O'Connor), which I will believe when they eventuate.

Just where Mitch Inman and Kurtley Beale are going to fit in is an interesting quandry. Can Inman play wing?

With no more signings (and losing Cips) you'd have to think something like this:

9 Phipps
10 Beale
11 Vuna
12 Mortlock
13 Inman
14 Kingi
15 Gerrard

If we keep Cips, Beale moves to 15, Gerrard to 13, Inman to wing?

If we get JOC (James O'Connor), Mortlock to 13, Inman to Wing?

Either way, Kingi misses out. Or Snorky retires. Some very hard questions.
 

en_force_er

Geoff Shaw (53)
Phipps could well make the WC squad and will at least but involved with the Wobs leading up to it.

Come the 2012 international season the world is his oyster when it comes to getting some international caps.

Massive signing.
 

Duncher

Herbert Moran (7)
Just thinking guys... With the news on Kurtley all of a sudden the back flip the Rebs pulled on Denan Kemp makes a lot more sense
 

Ruggo

Mark Ella (57)
Michael was born in London, came here as a very young tacker. That's why he moved to England to try out for the Poms when he realised Dwyer wasn't going to give him a start at the Tahs. Australia should always be able to find a spot for quality players like Michael in our professional rugby ranks.

Sounds like the bloke has given considerable service to Australian rugby at a lower level and on that, he should be granted exemption.
 

James Buchanan

Trevor Allan (34)
How do you figure?

My guess is he's figuring that they're signing Beale instead of Kemp as an outside back.

For me its apples and oranges. Kemp would have been signed on a 1 season contract to cover injuries. Kurtley is all about the future and very well could be playing fly half next year.

Sounds like the bloke has given considerable service to Australian rugby at a lower level and on that, he should be granted exemption.

I wish that were the case too. Then again the ARU probably sees super rugby as developing players for the Wallabies and Lipman would be holding up the development of further Wallaby Opensides.
 

en_force_er

Geoff Shaw (53)
They should crack a deal with him that as long as he goes and plays club rugby, in either Melbourne or his native Sydney, after the season they'll call him an Aussie for all intensive purposes.

Harris would certainly be thankful.
 

Duncher

Herbert Moran (7)
My guess is he's figuring that they're signing Beale instead of Kemp as an outside back.

For me its apples and oranges. Kemp would have been signed on a 1 season contract to cover injuries. Kurtley is all about the future and very well could be playing fly half next year.

That's what I had in mind...
 

James Buchanan

Trevor Allan (34)
I'm not sure that would work so well. It would kind of invalidate the entire 'marquee-player' rule setup, unless it only applied to people who grew up in Australia then played for a foreign power or something.
 

hench

Johnnie Wallace (23)
Does anyone see this move as Beale fancying himself as the Wallabies #10 in future years?

Or am I reading too much into it? :lmao:
 

qwerty51

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Why would he need to move to the Rebels to be the Wallaby 10? IMO, if he stayed he was going to be the Tahs 10 for a long time.
 
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