Rebels 2014

[en_force_er]

No the NZ Maori side is not a national representative one. Seeing as there is no current New Zealand A the u20s becomes the de facto 2nd side.

I don't think this is necessarily true. The team has to be declared the 2nd side and I haven't heard of this being done outside of Europe or the Pacific Islands.

NZ on the other hand has no problem with a local U20 rep growing up, not making the ABs by their mid 20s, and declaring for a PI nation.

In fact, if NZ U20s are their default A side then West probably wouldn't qualify as a 'developing' player as he played U20s most recently in 2012 (I think?).

So yeah, I'm not saying it hasn't happened but I am saying I haven't seen anything anywhere alluding to this.

 

[Forcefield]

No the NZ Maori side is not a national representative one. Seeing as there is no current New Zealand A the u20s becomes the de facto 2nd side.

Last time I looked Australia and New Zealand still had Australia 'A' and the Junior All Blacks listed as their second senior team. Other teams (e.g. France) had opted for their U20 side to be their second senior team, but Australia and New Zealand hadn't. This is despite the fact that Australia 'A' and the JABs don't actually play anymore.

I am not sure what the IRB's ruling is regarding U20s as the second senior side, but I would guess that the IRB does not intend to declare players ineligible if they played for another nation's U20s side.

 

[Dumbledore]

Am I the only person who doesn't care where a player comes from as long as they're willing to properly commit to the Rebels and will hang around for at least a couple of years?

 

[Zander]

Am I the only person who doesn't care where a player comes from as long as they're willing to properly commit to the Rebels and will hang around for at least a couple of years?

Ideally you should because their eligible international status affects their employment at the Rebels due to marquee restrictions.

You two above are correct actually, the u20s are only the second national side for the PIs due to their participation in the Pacific Rugby Cup.

 

[oztimmay]

http://www.espnscrum.com/australia/rugby/story/203373.html

Growden never shies away from controversy. Don't think he even cares. Minor detail missed about the need to prop up NSW and QLD early this century, only a minor detail lost in the effect of trying to sell a dead point.

Simple economic theory; spend wisely, take calculated risks, support and grow your investment = results. Knee-jerk reactions don't get us anywhere.

 

[Elfster]

http://www.espnscrum.com/australia/rugby/story/203373.html

Growden never shies away from controversy. Don't think he even cares. Minor detail missed about the need to prop up NSW and QLD early this century, only a minor detail lost in the effect of trying to sell a dead point.

Simple economic theory; spend wisely, take calculated risks, support and grow your investment = results. Knee-jerk reactions don't get us anywhere.

He did come from the Sydney Morning Herald - and that organisation is a hot bed of sound economic ideas and philosophies - they are reflected wonderfully in the share price of Fairfax.

But his idea of moving the Brumbies to Melbourne. So, by destroying the nascent Rebel franchise all their supporters will automatically become new brumbies and everything will be so much better.

And he also thinks it a good idea to remove the side from its support structures that almost won the S15 comp this year.

I must be missing something.

 

[Ash]

Am I the only person who doesn't care where a player comes from as long as they're willing to properly commit to the Rebels and will hang around for at least a couple of years?

It matters because there is (or at least was) a maximum limit of a 2 year contract for those "marquee" signings. This was temporarily waived for the Rebels upon their inception (with their max imports decreasing every year until they reached the same rules as the other team), but I assume the year limit is back in place?

 

[TheBigDog]

Im not sure if this has been touched upon yet but on the weekend Alexander Rokobaro was picked in the Fijian squad for their upcoming tour. I thought he was signed with the Rebels on a full contract as an Australian player. Can someone shed some light on this? As far as i'm aware he's still with the Rebels for 2014 as well.

 

[oztimmay]

Im not sure if this has been touched upon yet but on the weekend Alexander Rokobaro was picked in the Fijian squad for their upcoming tour. I thought he was signed with the Rebels on a full contract as an Australian player. Can someone shed some light on this? As far as i'm aware he's still with the Rebels for 2014 as well.

AFAIK still a contracted Rebels player in 2014.

 

[Dumbledore]

It matters because there is (or at least was) a maximum limit of a 2 year contract for those "marquee" signings. This was temporarily waived for the Rebels upon their inception (with their max imports decreasing every year until they reached the same rules as the other team), but I assume the year limit is back in place?

Yeah, I get that side to it. Obviously it matters when you're trying to work out who can fit into a squad, but outside of that I'm really not fussed whether they're Australian or not.

 

[Ash]

I agree with that sentiment. I think that the notion that our Super Rugby teams must be completely is a bit misplaced.

I would also love to see some Kiwis playing in our teams and some Aussies playing in Kiwi teams and still being eligible for their respective national sides.

All that being said, the our sides should still be mostly Australian, they do not need to be completely Australian.

 

[Scooter]

AFAIK we are down to four internationals in our squad for 2014 who are: Eddie Aholelei, Tamati Ellison, Shota Horie and Alex Rokobaro.

Guys like Woodward, Fuglistaller and Veainu are developing foreign players.

Toby Smith and Tom Sexton were both born in Aus so are eligible for the Wallabies. Tom Lahiff is eligible for the Wallabies through his father. Nice work by Sam Cordingley to pick up so many Wallaby eligible players from overseas.

 

[Scooter]

Eddie Aholelei has been named in the Tongan squad for the European Tour and Shota Horie has been named in the Japanese squad. Congratulations to Eddie and Shota.

 

[Tex]

International eligibility for NZ players in Aus and vice-versa is a logical step.

The players and management are highly professional but the system is still overtly semi-pro and political. I don't think the AFL is necessarily the best model as they've gone too far from their roots, but rugby has a lot to learn from them in terms of the transition from amateurs paid in brown paper bags, to the mega-wealthy corporation it is today.

 

[Eyes and Ears]

International eligibility for NZ players in Aus and vice-versa is a logical step.

The players and management are highly professional but the system is still overtly semi-pro and political. I don't think the AFL is necessarily the best model as they've gone too far from their roots, but rugby has a lot to learn from them in terms of the transition from amateurs paid in brown paper bags, to the mega-wealthy corporation it is today.

I am not sure that it is the next logical step. Today there are 300 players amongst the 10 franchises and there are almost 150 who are Wallabies eligible. If it was opened up, I think that there would be a strong chance that there would be more than 200 Kiwis and less than a 100 Aussies in that 300. This would not be good for our depth particularly in positions where we are already lacking.

 

[Tex]

I take your point.

 

[en_force_er]

I am not sure that it is the next logical step. Today there are 300 players amongst the 10 franchises and there are almost 150 who are Wallabies eligible. If it was opened up, I think that there would be a strong chance that there would be more than 200 Kiwis and less than a 100 Aussies in that 300. This would not be good for our depth particularly in positions where we are already lacking.

It would be a weird dynamic.

Let's say hypothetically Aussie based players are eligible for the ABs and Savea Jnr comes to the Rebels and plays here for 3 years trying to make the ABs. He fails, the ABs are looking for a traditional 7 and he is not that (hypothetically). So after 3 years he says "fuck it" and plays for the Wallabies.

On one hand, it'd be good to see a test quality player play tests and there's plenty of Kiwis who are test standard and never get there (there's a reason Samoa is so fantastic right now), but on the other hand is this bloke really an Aussie? I'm all for making a bloke earn his stripes but in this scenario he never did, he just threw the towel in and went where the going is good.

Anyway, just a thought.

 

[Tex]

Ala Woodward?

 

[en_force_er]

Ala Woodward?

No, because Woodward is over here completely aware that he is not eligible to be an All Black in the time he spends here.

He's made a considered decision.

 

[kiap]

Does anyone know how long Ihaia West's deal with the Rebels is?

Interested to find out if possible.