Rebels v Reds Rd 8 Good Friday 2015

[Scrubber2050]

Think Horwill was done and dusted last year. He would have regained a Wallaby start IF he had played the house down.

To me he is the cause of 2 games lost. I don't know whether he doesn't give a fuck or he's trying too hard.

Either way his representative days are well and truly gone

 

[Ruggo]

I don't condone Horwill's actions but to me it looks like a combination of shithouse technique and shithouse timing. Looked like he was aiming for a physical clean out and his technique was shit. He missed a target and his timing was shit. The red was a fair call without doubt and he has to own that. I don't think he was intending to line up the target he hit.

 

[Gnostic]

I don't condone Horwill's actions but to me it looks like a combination of shithouse technique and shithouse timing. Looked like he was aiming for a physical clean out and his technique was shit. He missed a target and his timing was shit. The red was a fair call without doubt and he has to own that. I don't think he was intending to line up the target he hit.

Sorry Ruggo, from the vision the intent was there to strike. He cocks the arm back, clenches the first and takes a full step before driving down onto PAE and unleashing with the arm and still clenched fist. A clear out would be a driving through motion and wouldn't need the cocked am and clenched fist. He deserved more than one week suspension. Idiotic action.

 

[RedsHappy]

Think Horwill was done and dusted last year. He would have regained a Wallaby start IF he had played the house down.

To me he is the cause of 2 games lost. I don't know whether he doesn't give a fuck or he's trying too hard.

Either way his representative days are well and truly gone

Yes. Btw: in a long line of mostly super-soft treatment of the Reds/QRU, I was highly amused today to read Wayne Smith's piece in the The Australian arguing that in fact Horwill's red card v Rebels came not from issues like resentment at losing the captaincy etc but rather the likely genesis was Cheika's insistence on really assertive, aggressive forwards play in the Wallabies.

FFS, how indulgent can you get with this line of argument. Perhaps it's the grubby price of being granted regular 'friendly' interviews with J Carmichael and R McCall.

 

[RugbyReg]

RH do you know it is resentment of losing the captaincy?

 

[ChargerWA]

I don't get the "resentment of losing the captaincy" argument at all.

It's pretty bloody plain to see Horwill is just trying to play a tough brand of physical rugby and has in the heat of the battle over stepped the line. He's trying to be dominant, probably a bit frustrated he's not physically able to do what he used to and is trying to use anything in his arsenal to get the desired result.

I don't think he is a dirty player. But definitely reckless and prone to the odd brain explosion. But I don't think it's premeditated at all.

Having said that, we all slag Deysel off and it would be perfectly fair for outsiders to look at Horwill's history and conclude he's not much better.

 

[gel]

I don't get the "resentment of losing the captaincy" argument at all.

I don't think his body language, tone of voice or even his words are indicative of a guy that was exactly stoked by the decision. (skip to 1:00 timestamp for James Horwill's speech)

I think he most definitely would be resentful of the decision and I do believe it has affected how he is playing this year. I think being the Reds captain is something that James Horwill would hold incrediblly dearly and it would hurt immensley to lose it.

I think *in combination with* how the reds are performing and the frustration of having an absolute plum as a coach is leading to how he is behaving on the field.

I don't think anyone could accuse Horwill of being shy with his emotions and I believe he is one very angry individual - and that is manifesting in how he is playing.

 

[Ruggo]

Yes. Btw: in a long line of mostly super-soft treatment of the Reds/QRU, I was highly amused today to read Wayne Smith's piece in the The Australian arguing that in fact Horwill's red card v Rebels came not from issues like resentment at losing the captaincy etc but rather the likely genesis was Cheika's insistence on really assertive, aggressive forwards play in the Wallabies.

FFS, how indulgent can you get with this line of argument. Perhaps it's the grubby price of being granted regular 'friendly' interviews with J Carmichael and R McCall.

He may not be great at the moment and on the downer but let us not forget the fantastic service he has given Reds rugby over the years. I don't doubt frustration but it is wrong to question his heart.

EDIT: I miss-interpreted RH's post leading to this reply.

 

[HighPlainsDrifter]

Big Kev's timing seemed perfect ...but it's not just him , those on the edge of consideration in their respective RWC squads may feel inclined in the heat of the moment to adopt a hail Mary approach whether it is smart or dumb in the broader picture . The referees will likely continue to be tested in the lead up to the RWC .... I only hope that a line in the sand is drawn now AND maintained during that tournament . It only took the Crusaders v Sharks kneeing debacle , what -the next night . Play smart lads , with vigour and extreme prejudice up to that line in the sand ......

 

[Gnostic]

RH do you know it is resentment of losing the captaincy?

I think you'll find the post isn't about what is our isn't the motivation behind the action. It is comment on the lenient, excuse making reporting. It is in fact something which he was himself (Smith) highly critical about regarding the Tahs and the Wallabies under Deans.

 

[RedsHappy]

He may not be great at the moment and on the downer but let us not forget the fantastic service he has given Reds rugby over the years. I don't doubt frustration but it is wrong to question his heart.

Ruggo - I didn't/don't question his heart. I was solely commenting upon the almost ludicrously indulgent reports re the J Horwill red card matter by W Smith. It was so silly I'd be pretty sure Big Kev would also laugh at it.

And it was Smith himself that, in the same article, said something like '.....well, you might think this could be due to a loss of the captaincy......' then went on to reject that on the basis I noted.

W Smith was routinely very critical of Deans, JO'N etc and the often docile media reporting re the various failings of these two. Even though I am a Reds fan, I object to him adopting that very same docility and indulgence to most of his pieces re RG and the QRU as I think that a low level of accurate critique of our rugby elites in the mainstream rugby media does the long-term cause of Aus rugby no good at all.

For the record, many of my fondest, most uplifting memories of high quality rugby play and outstanding team leadership arose from the talents and attitudes of J Horwill in 2010-11. Those great memories and appreciation of the man are unerasable.

 

[Ruggo]

My apologies Reds Happy. I interpreted your post wrong. In that context I agree with you,

 

[RedsHappy]

RH do you know it is resentment of losing the captaincy?

No. RR - see post #371 above re this.

A btw though: in my rugby circles at least, it's widely speculated upon that the loss of the captaincy, plus (allegedly) little faith in RG, plus the horror seasons of the recent Reds, plus his own loss of form, are in aggregate what's behind these 'bad boy' Horwill moments we're seeing more of.

 

[Ruggo]

I think the fact he is burdened by his injury past might make the bloke feel frustrated.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Life as a top professional athlete is difficult. Not only physically but also emotionally.

Kev had a serious injury. Performance at least way below his usual or poor.

He loses Wallaby Captaincy. He actually in that week gets dropped from team. Regains spot simply because Simmons get injured at training so reinstated. But Link had already appointed Ben Mowen as captain for that game and the decision stood

The bloke must have been tormented at that stage.

His performance at Reds and Wallaby levels maintained a consistent level - poor.

He started to quickly lose the confidence of those around him. More emotional torment.

Ultimate torment - he loses Reds captaincy, something he cherished very much.

Somewhere in there he signs overseas.

Been a very very tough emotional roller coaster

I personally think he just needs to regather his thoughts on rugby, realise his Wallaby days are gone, finish the season on a high for the Reds and then enjoy his time in England with new wife.

He has been a champion servant for the State

 

[I like to watch]

I don't condone Horwill's actions but to me it looks like a combination of shithouse technique and shithouse timing. Looked like he was aiming for a physical clean out and his technique was shit. He missed a target and his timing was shit. The red was a fair call without doubt and he has to own that. I don't think he was intending to line up the target he hit.

Yeah that,or he is just another ageing 'hardman' that ends up being a niggler and a cheap shot merchant,as he finds he no longer has the physical impact he once had.
2 red cards in 6? games is unsatisfactory,and it's not really relevant whether it's poor technique or poor attitude.

 

[ChargerWA]

Life as a top professional athlete is difficult. Not only physically but also emotionally.

Kev had a serious injury. Performance at least way below his usual or poor.

He loses Wallaby Captaincy. He actually in that week gets dropped from team. Regains spot simply because Simmons get injured at training so reinstated. But Link had already appointed Ben Mowen as captain for that game and the decision stood

The bloke must have been tormented at that stage.

His performance at Reds and Wallaby levels maintained a consistent level - poor.

He started to quickly lose the confidence of those around him. More emotional torment.

Ultimate torment - he loses Reds captaincy, something he cherished very much.

Somewhere in there he signs overseas.

Been a very very tough emotional roller coaster

I personally think he just needs to regather his thoughts on rugby, realise his Wallaby days are gone, finish the season on a high for the Reds and then enjoy his time in England with new wife.

He has been a champion servant for the State

I believe Horwill had signed overseas or at least told the Reds he was going to before he lost the captaincy. The decision to bring Slipper in was more to sure him up and less to do with Horwill.

The Force made the same mistake going from Sharpe to Pocock. I don't think the captaincy should be used as a carrot to retain players. That's not what it was intended for and the best man for the job should have it.

 

[oztimmay]

Or 'men', in some cases. I like the idea of the leadership transition plan going on down at Rebel land.

 

[Scrubber2050]

I believe Horwill had signed overseas or at least told the Reds he was going to before he lost the captaincy. The decision to bring Slipper in was more to sure him up and less to do with Horwill.

The Force made the same mistake going from Sharpe to Pocock. I don't think the captaincy should be used as a carrot to retain players. That's not what it was intended for and the best man for the job should have it.

Reckon you are right. The captaincy had to be changed once Kev confirmed the overseas gig.

How do you have a captain when he has declared his hand for the following year.

 

[Scoey]

I don't see what relevance his plans are for the next season has to do with his captaincy. If it was to give the future captain time to settle into the role while the current one is still there to guide and mentor, yes, that's understandable but to say, if you're leaving next year so we're stripping the captaincy this year is just childish.