Reds 2015

[Scrubber2050]

It seems to be a solid rumour (if there is ever such a ting) that Genia and Horwill (and others) will be looking overseas in 2016 (at their choice)

TWAS - I know YOU think Horwill is at the Reds until age 65.

Happy to revisit the discussion in about a year or so - or maybe a little earlier

 

[Train Without a Station]

No Scrubber. Just until we have a replacement who is better.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Can we offload Genia a year early though?

 

[Scrubber2050]

No Scrubber. Just until we have a replacement who is better.

Mate I hope the Powers That Be are looking towards 2016. They seemed to have done a good job for 2015

 

[Troy]

Watching Rugby HQ last night, I was just a little bit excited to see that JOC (James O'Connor) was working on kicking drills with one Mr J Wilkinson.

He's always worked hard off the field and it was good to see that hasn't changed.

 

[Parse]

Does anyone know where Ben Lucas ended up?

 

[Gillys_ghost]

I don't think there's any word yet what hes doing. He never should of been cut loose, He was a great player, Hes got a great pass, a solid running game and defends very well for such a little guy, also must be close to the most versatile back we have being able to play both half positions, Fullback and probably inside centre if things were ever so desperate

 

[Train Without a Station]

He's handy. But for the price he commands he's not worth it. He's the 3rd choice halfback when the 2nd choice barely plays. He's probably the 3rd or 4th choice flyhalf in 2014 where he'd only play through injury and in 2015 he'd be close to the 4th choice fullback.

In 2015 he won't make the 23 without injuries. He has been cut loose yes. But is that because he wasn't willing to play for 5 figures? Which is what we can afford to pay for that player in the squad.

 

[Scoey]

TWAS - I know YOU think Horwill is at the Reds until age 65.

Kev has never ruled out playing overseas and I don't know why he would. All he has said, time and time again, is that he won't ever play against the Reds which obviously rules out a move to any other Super Rugby franchise.

 

[TheBigDog]

TWAS - agreed. I'd imagine it would have been more about Lucas walking away to earn some more $$$. Its the simple fact that you can't pay the big bucks to a player who was never your 1st choice in any position, unless through injury.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Teams that can cover injuries well are generally more successful. But you can't cover injuries through recruitment. The money has run out by the time you get to injury cover players.

It comes down to luck and development pathways.

 

[Gillys_ghost]

I would think he should still be 2nd choice flyhalf, Paia'ua or whatever his name is yet is still unproven at rugby and JOC (James O'Connor) should only be a option at flyhalf if we run out of other options, he might of commanded to much money but i think due to his versatility he should be worth it. i Suppose it depends how graham uses his backs of the bench, he may go for impact which would pretty much guarantee Frisby but if he uses the backs as injury cover i think Lucas would be ideal

 

[Gillys_ghost]

I have no idea how much he was on, and if he was asking too much and wasnt willing to compromise then fine, the reds needed to cut him loose

 

[Parse]

Kev has never ruled out playing overseas and I don't know why he would. All he has said, time and time again, is that he won't ever play against the Reds which obviously rules out a move to any other Super Rugby franchise.

Actually he has previously stated that he wants to finish his career in England. There was an article I read sometime ago on it, can't remember where, where he was saying stay at the Reds and then finish up in England. he has some connections there apparently.

Edit: Ahh that's right, he has an English passport - his mum is a Pom.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Judging by his tweets Lucas was still training with the Reds until yesterday so there can't be too many hard feelings.

I wonder how much opportunity there is for guys like him to earn decent $$$ overseas unless they've previously played for a coach who's now overseas and who specifically taget him.

His CV is OK, but there are plenty of others around that would be similar. And if his versatility is the selling point then he has the same problem he does now, nobody can pay much for reserve cover.

 

[Train Without a Station]

I have no idea how much he was on, and if he was asking too much and wasnt willing to compromise then fine, the reds needed to cut him loose

We're loaded up with money to Genia, Cooper, O'Conner, Thomson and Hunt.

The Salary Cap works out at something like $125,000 per player.

I'd say it's likely that for each of those 5 players, plus Fainga'a, Fainga'a, Hanson, Tapuai and Gill they are being paid more than that. For each one of these 10 players earning more than the average wage, there has to be somebody earning less.

And that's working on the basis that the Reds are only playing $125,000 each for Slipper, Horwill, Daley, Holmes, Simmons, Schatz, McDuling etc. If any of these players are on more than that amount, then it's going to lower somebody else's.

Based on the fact that our team fully fit is likely going to be:

9. Genia
10. Cooper
11. CFS
12. Tapaui
13. Kerevi
14. JOC (James O'Connor)
15. Hunt

21. Frisby
22. Fainga'a
23. Turner

As one of the 9 players outside the 23, I think we'd be lucky if we had $80,000 left to offer Lucas. I would not begrudge him at all for pursuing overseas options based on his experience. It's doubtful he's going to move up the Australian rugby pecking order at this point in his career, and therefore wouldn't foresee any big pay days here for him.

 

[liquor box]

I would gladly swap Genia to a french club for a tight head prop

 

[Tomikin]

Deliberate? Freudian? Just a happy coincidence?

Well when the big dogs gotta go

 

[hammertimethere]

It was disappointing to lose Lucas, but by the sound of things they wanted to keep him AND bring in Paia'ua to groom as a younger player but couldn't pay him the money he was asking.

He'll command reasonable money overseas

 

[emuarse]

Should be easy, they will have a 10 who can put the ball in front of them and allow them to catch the ball.

I hope Frisby gets lots of game time next year, he has looked good for Brisbane

By letting Frisby have some starting time next year, it should put Ginea on his toes more, and as we know, when he's hot, he's real hot.
But in a lot of the Reds games this year, I felt he was simply going though the motions a lot of the time. Possibly Links felt the same way, and hence Ginea's non -apperance at test level.