The point was that some of those guys (depending on how far they go in their Japanese season) might not be in Australia prior to round 1.
Reds 2017
- Thread starter Scrubber2050
- Start date
- Status
Anyone playing in Japan immediately prior to the super rugby should have a mandatory three weeks sitting on a beach. Interspersed with some personal fitness work, of course. And then another three weeks coming off the bench, no 1 to 15 selections during that period.
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
Lindo - they sign contracts for a Super season. If they wanna play somewhere else but return to Super rugby in the top squad and on decent money (as they all would be on) then they should be rarin' to go for Round 1.. Also I don't think Jap rugby is anywhere near Super rugby from a physicality perspective.
Happy to Chat
Nev Cottrell (35)
Regarding the Reds assistant coaching, it would be a loss for Qld u20 to lose Jason Gilmore after his great success with the 2016 team. There will be a number of the boys back in the QLD u20 for 2017. It is important to have good coach in this group as they are a direct feed into Super Rugby.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Gillys_ghost
Dave Cowper (27)
Still nothing of the assistant coaches?
tell you what, let's make a deal, if anyone sees the announcement on the assistant coaches let's post it here.
Saves for everyone just asking if it's been announced yet.
T
TOCC
Guest
Agree and disagree...
Last year when Bernard Foley went from Super Rugby -> Rugby Championship -> RWC -> Top 14 with no more then 3 weeks break all year was at the extreme end of the scale, and his form and injuries in 2016 reflect this.
But, there are other cases of players who aren't test players or playing nearly as much rugby.. George Smith had a 3 month off season between Wasps and Suntory.
Player burnout is a massive issue especially with these new fools gold 'Flexi contracts', but I don't think you can place a hard and fast rule on players, it's completely circumstantial.
amirite
Chilla Wilson (44)
I think it's important to realise in a Japanese season there's only around 10 games + finals. And, with their harsh rules around how many foreigners are allowed on the field, and the fact that they tend to over hire, players might only play 6-8 games.
If you're older, you may even play less games than that. Timanti Ellison is known for going over there and playing half or less of the season.
Hypothetically, with good periodisation, you could bounce back from this okay.
If you're older, you may even play less games than that. Timanti Ellison is known for going over there and playing half or less of the season.
Hypothetically, with good periodisation, you could bounce back from this okay.
TSR
Mark Ella (57)
Fair points Amirite, and you sound more on top of this than me - but people coming back from Japan haven't tended to go well going straight into a super rugby season.
I get that we need our best players to give us the best chance to win, but we also need our players at their best, particularly at the pointy end of the season. Who'd be a coach?
I get that we need our best players to give us the best chance to win, but we also need our players at their best, particularly at the pointy end of the season. Who'd be a coach?
TSR
Mark Ella (57)
Haha - when I posted that, I knew someone would come up with an example like that. I didn't think of him - although I did think Tui's form tailed off at the end of the season (but maybe that was more to do with the environment here).
T
TOCC
Guest
Jaques Potgeiter also played in Japan 2013/2014 and 2014/2015 the years he was at the Waratahs..
Super Rugby plus Top League isn't an excessive amount of rugby, but adding in 10-12 test matches is what pushes it over the limit.
Super Rugby plus Top League isn't an excessive amount of rugby, but adding in 10-12 test matches is what pushes it over the limit.
amirite
Chilla Wilson (44)
I appreciate that and I do agree that test season + Japan + Super is what really gets you, rather than Super + Japan.
I'd like to see blokes that play Super then Tests then Japan take the following Super season off, or at least 50% of it. The ARU should set a hard cap of games per year for players contracted to them directly, I believe Ireland do this and have seen good outcomes. This would mean the Japanese teams could contract them still but it would be a 'buyer beware' scenario.
Like I said before - with proper periodisation there's no reason this shouldn't work. TBH, I think all the flying and time in hotel rooms is as much of an issue as the games per year - another thing to look at.
liquor box
Peter Sullivan (51)
How wold Japan rugby compare to a good trial game?
I realise that in Japan it is a full season and not just 2 or 3 games but surely Japan makes them "game fit" for the upcoming season.
It is common in NRL for top line players who are aging and have injury issues to only train on a limited schedule.
Does a player like George Smith really need to practice as much as Gunn? Surely at some point his skills developed over decades as well as his rugby brain would allow him to skip a session a week to keep him fresher.
I realise that in Japan it is a full season and not just 2 or 3 games but surely Japan makes them "game fit" for the upcoming season.
It is common in NRL for top line players who are aging and have injury issues to only train on a limited schedule.
Does a player like George Smith really need to practice as much as Gunn? Surely at some point his skills developed over decades as well as his rugby brain would allow him to skip a session a week to keep him fresher.
amirite
Chilla Wilson (44)
I get what you're saying, but trial games are also to build combinations. If you look at the data, teams with well founded combinations do better virtually always.
That's why high player turnover can be fools gold - that being said the Reds have done a lot of 'bringing guys back' so I don't foresee combinations to be a big issue.
And yeah, I feel like you'd find Gunny would be doing a LOT of S&C to get stronger and faster and George Smith would be doing virtually all prehab and rehab stuff (and maybe less contact work too).
JacPot was pretty ordinary in 2015 at the Tahs, the year-round rugby finally caught up with him.
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
Players really play overseas for one of 2 reasons, no more, no less.
1. Money, money and more money.
2. They can't get a run at Super rugby and want to play at a higher level (and get paid as well)
But if they want to return to play Super rugby the onus is on them to be able to manage their foorball to maintain a certain level of performance so maybe contracts in the first year of return should be performance based.
1. Money, money and more money.
2. They can't get a run at Super rugby and want to play at a higher level (and get paid as well)
But if they want to return to play Super rugby the onus is on them to be able to manage their foorball to maintain a certain level of performance so maybe contracts in the first year of return should be performance based.
Yes and no.
There's no value for the team that has signed them to push a player who needs a break and then have them injured for the season.
The Super Rugby team could try offering a different style of contract but it may mean they don't sign the player they want.
- Status