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Reds 2019

Discussion in 'Rugby Discussion' started by RugbyReg, Jul 14, 2018.

  1. dru Paul McLean (56)

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    Yes good I understand. You might not have noticed the subtlety here but if this was, say, the Wallabies thread, I would go stum quickly.

    As far as I’m concerned, on the Reds thread that onus lies with others. If they decide to continue then you can anticipate re-reading things. Personally I think it’s poor form, but that’s just me, and I’ve no intention of dropping it. On this thread.
  2. TSR Peter Fenwicke (45)

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    Haha - don’t worry. I know it will go around again. I probably should have just let it go.
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  3. Gnostic Mark Ella (57)

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    I agree fully, in fact I would suggest that player stocks are lower now than pre '96 in terms of real numbers. My argument is that they have narrowed the funnel of players entering the Pro system with their talent identification processes and compound that issue with the massive contracts offered to players from outside that system, often multiples of contracts offered to players who came through the system. The problem with that is short term thinking, yes the individuals may well be that much better, but it undermines the system so that the system no longer produces. I know some would argue that the NRC was supposed to open that funnel to more players, but honestly the season is so short it is meaningless and could easily be replaced with a probables trial game series its that weak. It would have the same following as the NRC as well.

    For instance on the development front I look at Australian wingers/fullbacks. We have not produced a truly world class winger or fullback since Burke, Latham, Roff. We have bought some good wingers in Tiquiri and Sailor who proved their mercenary qualities and lack of loyalty to a game they never really had much love for, but the ARU should have known that. Recently we have bought Folau, and he was a world class winger and half a 15. Please do not mention Beale, I wouldn't rate Beale world class at anything to do with Rugby, better than some others in Australia but when you have been paid to do nothing else since your a kid you should be able to pick something up. Now we have fist choice wingers in the Tahs like Clarke - he really is no better than some first grade blokes I see with a Monday to Friday job, just far fitter. We did produce a truly world class 13 in Mortlock though...

    I hope you are right about Thorn - I have reservations, but then I am not invested enough anymore to take that much notice this year, but the games I have seen the Reds play they have swung from being very good one week to being second grade or less the next, and much revolves around Kerevi, if a team shuts him down effectively there isn't much else.
    Rebelsfan, RedsHappy and Up the Guts like this.
  4. TSR Peter Fenwicke (45)

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    I think what he has done is broadened the base and pushed up standards. As far as I understand, whatever he did or didn’t say publicly at the start of the year in close company he was very open about the fact that his side still had a lot of shortcomings and that they were up against it, but that if he could instil in them to be uncompromising about their standards that the fruit would be born down the track.
  5. Show-n-go Larry Dwyer (12)

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    Classifying people as world class is such a slippery slope, it’s so bloody subjective. For example there is no way I would’ve called Mortlock world class, but obviously you do gnostic. What even is the definition? Best in the world? Top 3? Top 5?

    Guys like Mccaw, G.Smith, Carter etc are obviously widely regarded as world class but outside of that very top, once in a lifetime players it gets very murky
  6. Derpus Tony Shaw (54)

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    World class is you make a world 15, surely. So top two locks, top THP and LHP etc.
  7. Show-n-go Larry Dwyer (12)

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    But see there’s a problem. G.smith and mccaw played at the same time would you say one of those two weren’t world class?
  8. Derpus Tony Shaw (54)

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    There can only be one.
  9. liquor box Ken Catchpole (46)

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    I think world class means you can play top flight rugby anywhere in the world and get in the starting 15 of any team in that country.
  10. Derpus Tony Shaw (54)

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    Isn't that the same thing? To be able to get into literally any team, you'd have to be the best in your position.

    Like if Richie McCaw wanted to play for the Wallabies (lol) you'd most likely bench Smith for McCaw making McCaw the World Class player (or vice versa, if that were your opinion).

    Obviously where the difference between players is so slight it becomes a matter of opinion and that's when the fun internet arguments start.
  11. Rebels3 Dick Tooth (41)

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    World class to me has always been that you play at a high level consistently at the highest level.

    There is more than 2 world class locks going around Retalick, Whitelock, Itoje, Etzebeth, Ryan

    Soccer is a great game to identify the need for simply more than a starting 11 worth of players.

    Or cricket, there has been times where there has been 6-7 world class fast bowlers at the same time. There has been Lillie, Hadley, the West Indian trio, Thommo, Kapil Dev, etc. to only state 3 of these guys are allowed to be world class is a crime. :p
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  12. upthereds#! John Solomon (38)

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    World class is could happily play International Rugby for anyone. A class player, anywhere in the world, competing for or against anybody in the world.

    Reds have 1 maybe 2 world class players (Kerevi). I would struggle to put Tupou, Tui and Rodda as world class as yet, they are just starting out on the international stage for the wallabies, and the wallabies aren't a dominant team.
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  13. Beer Baron Cyril Towers (30)

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    Agreed. But given both Kerevi and Rodda are yet to dominate/excel at international level - i think they would be premature as well
  14. Bobby Sands Arch Winning (36)

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    Agree, but doubt they would not be starters at any team in the world.

    Its a weird metric (for lack of a better word) mainly because it doesn't have a definition.
  15. upthereds#! John Solomon (38)

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    I'm sure plenty here are confident they should be handed the task of creating such a definition!
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  16. liquor box Ken Catchpole (46)

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    I was thinking more about a step down from Test matches.

    There are some countries that seem to specialize in certain positions. A world class player would get a run in any of the countries.

    Eg a world class prop would get picked in Argentina or Europe, a world class second rower would get picked in South Africa, a world class 10 would get picked in NZ, a world class coach would get to coach at the Reds:)

    The Reds have some great players but very few would get picked straight away in countries that "specialise" in their position.
  17. The Nomad Billy Sheehan (19)

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    We’ve had some pretty handy centres over the years including 1999 international player of the year Tim Horan . Think Kefu , Eales and Wilson would have got a start in most teams of the time , could go on but you hopefully know what I mean .
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  18. Tomikin Tony Shaw (54)

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    [IMG]
  19. The torpedo Chilla Wilson (44)

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    [IMG]
  20. Tomikin Tony Shaw (54)

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    Probably would have done a better job at coaching :)
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