Reds v Tahs : Opening game of the season

[Geronimo]

we put in for 65 minutes and played good footy - however the bench couldn't step up and we payed the price.

from all accounts houston looked good in the 2s and will probably get a bench gig or even go to 8, with Higgin on the side (who played bloody good might I add).

Agree. The bench let us down with bad options and ill-discipline. Houston did look very good, in fact he was quite outstanding in that game, but the fact remains the quality and level of that game was down a few pegs. On the positive side he did look quite fit and did all that he could have done

 

[TheRiddler]

Sorry Riddler, that was probably my suggestion, and it has been a few years since I was there. There probably is a difference between definitions of fine dining from Brisbane to Sydney, but I also expect that there is a big difference in cost as well!

Neither cities can compete with Melbourne as to choice, variety and value for money dining.

No probs Scotty - always fun to try these things out. Giannis certainly charge like a fine dining establishment. $300 for two of us and that was with only one of us drinking alcohol! Not sure I agree about Melbourne being better than Sydney for dining but maybe my one eye is playing tricks on me....

Quoting that $ figure got me thinking how much the whole weekend has just cost. With flights, accom, tickets to the game, food, drinks, taxis etc the final total is around $1,200. Worth every cent to see the Queenslanders get beat - again

 

[Scotty]

having had a little time to relax after that unbeleivable set of events on saturday evening. minor tweakings for next week.

we put in for 65 minutes and played good footy - however the bench couldn't step up and we payed the price.

from all accounts houston looked good in the 2s and will probably get a bench gig or even go to 8, with Higgin on the side (who played bloody good might I add).

What is the go with Tomiki? surely we could have used him on saturday night. Andrew Shaw is not a 7 for my liking and is not ready for this level just at the moment.

I would like James Slipper to get another go - he has the potential to step up in the same manner that Ben Daley has, who is shaping as the next Benny Robinson.

I thought Fainga'a looked good at 12. Likewise Davies on the wing.

Morgan didn't do much (anything?) and it Chambers will be an option in the coming weeks.

Laurie Weeks was immense.

In the loose our props were the better of their opposition, they just lacked a bit (or a lot) at scrum time. Daley was very good in attack in the 1st half and made some penetrating runs close to the ruck. I agree he could shape up to be the next Robinson. Weeks was everywhere in defense, and put on some very good hits that had the Tahs going backwards.

I thought the experiment with Horwill at 6 was ok. Interesting to see it against a faster backrow though. I am disappointed with Higginbotham at 8 - he doesn't appear to have that much impact, although he is always there in support. I recall when he was in form at the start of last year, most of his runs came on the back of a half break or offload from Houston.

Byrnes was pretty poor, and coughed up the ball a few times. He just doesn't seem to have the skills (or maybe composure).

As mentioned in another thread, I thought both Digby and Genia were lacking some pace off the mark, and am concerned that Genia has bulked up too much. His passing was also pretty average in the first half, but he was very good in the second.

I liked A Fainga'a. Solid in defense, and runs straight. Something the Tahs were missing.

I would probably keep the starting team the same, but bring Houston and Tomiki onto the bench. Houston has a lot to offer in attack, particularly against tiring defenses. Horwill would move into the second row when Houston came on, and Higginbotham to 6. Tomiki would be the 7 replacement.

 

[Scotty]

Sorry Riddler, that was probably my suggestion, and it has been a few years since I was there. There probably is a difference between definitions of fine dining from Brisbane to Sydney, but I also expect that there is a big difference in cost as well!

Neither cities can compete with Melbourne as to choice, variety and value for money dining.

No probs Scotty - always fun to try these things out. Giannis certainly charge like a fine dining establishment. $300 for two of us and that was with only one of us drinking alcohol! Not sure I agree about Melbourne being better than Sydney for dining but maybe my one eye is playing tricks on me....

Quoting that $ figure got me thinking how much the whole weekend has just cost. With flights, accom, tickets to the game, food, drinks, taxis etc the final total is around $1,200. Worth every cent to see the Queenslanders get beat - again

Thank you for our investment in our economy. We aim to please.

 

[Geronimo]

I would probably keep the starting team the same, but bring Houston and Tomiki onto the bench. Houston has a lot to offer in attack, particularly against tiring defenses. Horwill would move into the second row when Houston came on, and Higginbotham to 6. Tomiki would be the 7 replacement.

Sounds fair. If Lucas is fit he needs to come onto the bench and can cover 9 and 10. Gives us an extra spot.

 

[Lee Grant]

3. I do disagree with you on the Turner incident. Common sense tells me that he can be tackled into touch but the rest of your stuff is spot on

6. Halangahu is the unsung hero for the Tahs. He come on and played some great footy in testing times (outplayed Berrick)

Well done Tahs for finding some Reds like heart and playing through to the end.

3. Do you agree that you can't tackle a guy on the ground whether it is into touch or not, or whether he is sliding forward or not? If you don't, we can't talk to each other on the matter.

In my view as I said umpteen times above, it is in breach of the law which prohibits falling on a player on the ground and which I also said I have seen penalty tries awarded for in the Turner situation. We see the falling on a tackled player on the ground penalised frequently - call it tackling the tackled player on the ground if you will.

People have said above that they agree it is illegal but that the law should not be enforced because, in effect, it would skew the laws too much in favour of the attacking team. I disagree both to the enforcement issue and the skewing. There was some heavyweight skewing observance of the laws as they were written by the referees on the weekend . The rugby was a lot better over the 7 games and the sun still came this morning.


6. At least we can agree on Hangers - as I said elsewhere: he lifted the team when he came on.


Yeah the Reds had more heart than the Tahs had but they didn't have the heart at the end of the game. Again. Maybe heart is the wrong word, maybe it's nerve. Whatever the word is, the Tahs had more of it in those key moments. You couldn't imagine the Reds doing it to the Tahs were the roles reversed.

That and the scrums are the two big things that Link has to change. If he can do that the Reds can beat anybody.

 

[Doc]

The biggest question I would like answered out of Saturday, is which idiot at the Reds decided to mess with Quade's goal kicking style/technique?

The most disappointing aspect, as it is year in year out since Foley retired is hooker. Fainga'a came on made a massive impact and showed again why he is a thousand times better than Hardman around the park. Then he had to throw a lineout and set his career back several years. Why can't these guys improve this stuff. Over the last 5 years the reds must have had the worst lineout in S14. Even when Squeak was here he had struggles hitting the field at times.

 

[Lee Grant]

It's bloody frustrating for fans isn't it?

For the Tahs TPN also threw some bad balls - more wrong length and/or height than skew throws. At least if they aren't skew you can be a 50/50 chance of retaining the pill.

Yeah S. Fainga'a is showing that bit of the dash around the park and work rate that I raved about when he was at school. He seems to be getting a bit more physical too, but we'll have to see him starting games this year before we are sure.

My cunning plan when I saw him at school, at roughly the same time as the older TPN, was being converted to hooker, that these two would be vying for a Wallaby spot eventually. It may still happen.

Now behind them in age we have Fitzpatrick and Whittaker who are virtually unproven in pro rugby. As I have said before: Oz hooking futures are good, on paper.

But I digress.

 

[Scotty]

The biggest question I would like answered out of Saturday, is which idiot at the Reds decided to mess with Quade's goal kicking style/technique?

The most disappointing aspect, as it is year in year out since Foley retired is hooker. Fainga'a came on made a massive impact and showed again why he is a thousand times better than Hardman around the park. Then he had to throw a lineout and set his career back several years. Why can't these guys improve this stuff. Over the last 5 years the reds must have had the worst lineout in S14. Even when Squeak was here he had struggles hitting the field at times.

We did have Moore playing for us for a while, and for some of that time he was rated as Oz's best hooker.

 

[Scotty]

Lee,

Not sure if you have read all of the discussion on the tackling issue, but do you not agree that there could be two interpretations to the word 'held' pertaining to making a tackle?

1. Held by the opponent (ie has the ball carrier in his grasp)
2. Held in a fixed location by the opponent (ie the ball carrier is held stationary)

Here is another one to ponder:

Say the game is being played in very wet and slippery conditions. Peter Hynes has made a break and gets up around 8m out from the line, where he decides to start sliding towards the line (ie he is on the ground). Turner comes from behind, dives and graps Hynes' legs, stopping his slide towards the line. Should this be a penalty try?

 

[TOCC]

This is a good point by TOCC. What is the definition of 'held'. The law does not appear to say 'held by', but rather held, and TOCC is correct in saying that an interpretation of 'held' could be that the player would have be stopped.

And before Biffo decides there is no such thing as interpretation of law, I'll say this - of course there is. Just as there is in the interpretation of criminal law, and on a more basic level, just as there is with the interpretation of individual words. The world isn't black and white. There is plenty of grey.

Read the quote from the definitions for Law 15 I put up a few posts back:

"HELD BY ONE OR MORE OPPONENTS"

You can find the definition of "held" in any reasonable dictionary.

Please, stop throwing irrelevancies into the discussion. The discussion here is about a simple law, with its included definitions, for the game of rugby. It has nothing to do with the wide field of criminal law.

If you care to read the Laws of rugby, you will find that they are "black and white" in almost every instance.

mate ive read the laws, and it comes back to the term 'held', this is where the room for interpretation is, its not nearly black and white as you would suggest.

Do you really think you are the first person to look into the laws and ponder this very topic?

In black and white, no ... and a very long way from being the first.

Need me to define "long", "way", "black" or "white"?

listen i raised a rather valid point, if you want to dismiss it because it doesnt fit in your black and white world then good for you, but dont act as though other peoples opinions arent as important as yours.

 

[TOCC]

after watching a few of the super14 games on the weekend and highlights, ive come to the conclusion that after initial trepadation about some of the designs that i actually think the QLD and NSW jerseys are the two best in the comp.

I really like the Red pants as well now, i initially didnt but i think they look quite good on TV, in comparison im not a big fan of the Brumbies jerseys, they look like a poor attempt at going retro.

 

[Scotty]

I keep thinking the NSW players have spilled something on their sleeves.

 

[TOCC]

^^ yeah that actually took me a while to figure out what that was

 

[Biffo]

You wrote:

"Do you really think you are the first person to look into the laws and ponder this very topic?"

I wrote:

"In black and white, no ... and a very long way from being the first."

You wrote:

"if you want to dismiss it because it doesnt fit in your black and white world then good for you, but dont act as though other peoples opinions arent as important as yours."

Please connect the dots between my statement and your second statement. Can't. My sentence shows that I completely acknowledge that many people have considered the matter.

Just what am I supposed, in your red and red world, to be dismissing?

Even G. Bush Snr knew when there was and wasn't, linkage.

 

[TOCC]

You wrote:

"Do you really think you are the first person to look into the laws and ponder this very topic?"

I wrote:

"In black and white, no ... and a very long way from being the first."

You wrote:

"if you want to dismiss it because it doesnt fit in your black and white world then good for you, but dont act as though other peoples opinions arent as important as yours."

Please connect the dots between my statement and your second statement. Can't. My sentence shows that I completely acknowledge that many people have considered the matter.

Just what am I supposed, in your red and red world, to be dismissing?

Even G. Bush Snr knew when there was and wasn't, linkage.

this is getting rather tedious, but for the sake of the argument you also had previous comments such as the one below, its doesnt take a genius to pick up the scent of the condecsending attitude in your comments, if thats your way of assuring yourself that your correct then good for you, but lets agree to disagree and move on becuase this is achieving zilch.

Please, stop throwing irrelevancies into the discussion. The discussion here is about a simple law, with its included definitions, for the game of rugby. It has nothing to do with the wide field of criminal law.

 

[Scotty]

We can both agree that both Lee and Biffo become condescending when they have their views questioned.

As opposed to me - I just become :angryfire:

:

 

[Moses]

I was considering making a first page post, but thought I'd save this just for the forums.


Mental Disintegration. The term coined by NSW great Steve Waugh goes a long way to describing what the Waratahs achieved in Brisbane last night. For NSW great Phil Waugh (no relation) it was not enough to merely defeat the Reds, Phil desired a crushing and demoralising victory over his sworn enemies in red, and can now use this famous victory to galvanize his troops for the rest of the season.

This Waratahs performance could well have been inspired by the 2006 Ashes test in Adelaide. Merely defeating England would not have come close to inflicting the pain and revenge which was warranted by some tomfoolery in an open topped bus circa September '05.

To merely beat ones opposition is nice, but to make them truly believe victory is theirs, for them to start celebrating their ascendancy, and to then take that all away and shove it in their faces, that is soul destroying. Check out how broken big Kev is in the post match interview and you'll start to appreciate the brilliance of this strategy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThuxYbSCjjA

 

[tranquility]

Moses for you to claim NSW arsey and undeserving victory as a 'strategy'. is truly ridiculous. As if it was some Sun Tzu technique of battle.

The Reds were shattered because they beat themselves - it must have taken incredible will power not to punch holes in every waratah players heads when both team came together at the end and the tahs were throwing chat at them under the goal posts. chin up boys..

 

[fatprop]

The Reds simply weren't good enough, they thought they had the game won at 70 minutes against 14 men.................

Unfortunately a game goes for 80 minutes and by the end of 80 minutes they let 1 player run through 4 tacklers to win the match.