RedsHappy
Tony Shaw (54)
Looks like he might be headed to Munster, v interesting coach though as you say:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/provincial/6747874/Top-coach-Rob-Penney-in-line-for-Munster-job
Richard Graham to quit the Force and join the Reds
- Thread starter barbarian
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Looks like he might be headed to Munster, v interesting coach though as you say:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/provincial/6747874/Top-coach-Rob-Penney-in-line-for-Munster-job
biggsy
Chilla Wilson (44)
Thank you, well said. Better then what posted but thats not hard as most know my post are hard to make sense. But I do try, I'm more face to face chat over a beer.
Just goes to show you don't need to poach or lure player with big money or what ever goes on. Similar to what the rebels are doing. With names mentioned,they where unwanted now there super 15 champions.
todd4
Jim Clark (26)
Bowside
Peter Johnson (47)
They have done a lot of good things yes.
But this is bizarre as fuck. I'm just confused by it all.
I think being tactically ahead of the curve like the reds where last year must be amazingly mentally draining and maybe Link wants a break from it all before taking on the Australian job. But from a QLD rugby point of view that sucks for us.
Have we calmed down yet?
How about another viewpoint:
One of the things Rugby (and most) organisations are shit at is meaningful succession planning. Rather than getting our knickers in a knot when Link "walks out on QLD" in a few years time, this sets up a possible transition - where the future coach has had time to fully understand and take on board the culture and systems in place, be involved in recruitment decisions etc. Keep momentum going (assuming it builds again...)
Link's been there and done that at provincial level now, he seems a rightly ambitious bloke to me. So he gives himself the best chance of pulling in the Wobbs job next time round, which maybe he sees as his last shot before taking another career line - senior sports management maybe? Politics?
This new structure makes that possible, and assuming they've had that chat at the top of the Reds, they are forward thinking to do it. It also might just be part of a grander plan that recognises rugby at a broader level needs to be healthy if the QLD dynasty is not to collapse again.
As for RG as the understudy, I guess this comes back to which side of the RG coaching capabilities thread you fell on. But it would seem that the Reds brains trust have sided on the "smart and committed individual handcuffed in an organisation with problems".
How about another viewpoint:
One of the things Rugby (and most) organisations are shit at is meaningful succession planning. Rather than getting our knickers in a knot when Link "walks out on QLD" in a few years time, this sets up a possible transition - where the future coach has had time to fully understand and take on board the culture and systems in place, be involved in recruitment decisions etc. Keep momentum going (assuming it builds again...)
Link's been there and done that at provincial level now, he seems a rightly ambitious bloke to me. So he gives himself the best chance of pulling in the Wobbs job next time round, which maybe he sees as his last shot before taking another career line - senior sports management maybe? Politics?
This new structure makes that possible, and assuming they've had that chat at the top of the Reds, they are forward thinking to do it. It also might just be part of a grander plan that recognises rugby at a broader level needs to be healthy if the QLD dynasty is not to collapse again.
As for RG as the understudy, I guess this comes back to which side of the RG coaching capabilities thread you fell on. But it would seem that the Reds brains trust have sided on the "smart and committed individual handcuffed in an organisation with problems".
RedsHappy
Tony Shaw (54)
I can think of multiple ways that if they wanted to do all the 'next phase for Link and QLD rugby' stuff as per that gushing PR release tonight, the whole process (and its timing) could have been handled much better for fans, players, playing success this year, and almost certainly with a higher standard of post-Link coach at the end of it. Wtf was/is the mighty rush in all this, I truly doubt RG was being offered by the Cru, Tahs or Bulls. If the Reds S15 finished in early August say, we'd have approx 7 full months to headhunt world-wide for a new coach of real class - and the Reds would have a v good pitch to make - and have him starting by say February 2013 in time for him to be guided into the 2013 season by Link.
Just imagine how the Reds players must feel tonight in the middle of preparing for a major crunch game and where tomorrow/Wednesday no doubt Link will be hugely distracted with inquiries from every quarter.
The process itself as Bowside has said is bizarre, odd and unclear, and links to the recruitment of a new Reds coach that has no demonstrated achievements over time - alarmingly for the Reds not a single Force/WA poster here is sorry to see him go - and also leaves key Aus coaching jobs under every two years of starting them.
Just imagine how the Reds players must feel tonight in the middle of preparing for a major crunch game and where tomorrow/Wednesday no doubt Link will be hugely distracted with inquiries from every quarter.
The process itself as Bowside has said is bizarre, odd and unclear, and links to the recruitment of a new Reds coach that has no demonstrated achievements over time - alarmingly for the Reds not a single Force/WA poster here is sorry to see him go - and also leaves key Aus coaching jobs under every two years of starting them.
Wow - I have a nap, take the dogs for a walk, have dinner, read a book, then back to the forum and this news is up.
The timing of the matter may seem to be bizarre but there is early warning benefit in there. It is a step up for Link and a good career move, not to mention: a more interesting job, plus he will still have a few fingers in the Reds' pie. We have to wish him well.
The idea to have the position is a masterstroke by Queensland rugby and one hopes that the other states follow the lead. There are far too many cracks that things fall into and too many things not done because there is no one person in charge - and now there is.
I have no comment to make about Graham though one hoped that the normal process of acquiring a new coach would have been followed. Surely such a plum job would have attracted the interest from better candidates from overseas, even if only the Aussies applied for the job. If they wanted another Queenslander surely Tony McGahan would have been released by the Wallabies after the 2012 internationals, and before the EOYT.
As for the Force: it may be no bad thing if they can get a toe cutter similar to Jake White to shake things up and to be a reason why some players may choose to move west instead of staying where they are, or moving elsewhere. Then he could get rid of a bit of deadwood as Jake appears to be doing.
Suggestions about getting Graham Henry miss the mark IMO as he has passed the normal retirement age and a younger man is called for - one who is a shit kicker.
.
The timing of the matter may seem to be bizarre but there is early warning benefit in there. It is a step up for Link and a good career move, not to mention: a more interesting job, plus he will still have a few fingers in the Reds' pie. We have to wish him well.
The idea to have the position is a masterstroke by Queensland rugby and one hopes that the other states follow the lead. There are far too many cracks that things fall into and too many things not done because there is no one person in charge - and now there is.
I have no comment to make about Graham though one hoped that the normal process of acquiring a new coach would have been followed. Surely such a plum job would have attracted the interest from better candidates from overseas, even if only the Aussies applied for the job. If they wanted another Queenslander surely Tony McGahan would have been released by the Wallabies after the 2012 internationals, and before the EOYT.
As for the Force: it may be no bad thing if they can get a toe cutter similar to Jake White to shake things up and to be a reason why some players may choose to move west instead of staying where they are, or moving elsewhere. Then he could get rid of a bit of deadwood as Jake appears to be doing.
Suggestions about getting Graham Henry miss the mark IMO as he has passed the normal retirement age and a younger man is called for - one who is a shit kicker.
.
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
Did we? I've not seen any of the stats, but I'm surprised by that.
RedsHappy
Tony Shaw (54)
Gagger and Lee:
One core, and core cubed, point if I may: The demonstrated business and economic and fan-love and junior-QLD-rugby-player enrolling facts are in, over the period 2009-2011 inclusive, and they are unambiguously these:
For all of QLD rugby to get into a state of motivation, excitement, massively increased $ income, TV viewership figures up, Brisbanites loving the game of rugby again after 'the lost years', etc etc, there is NOTHING more important than that (a) that the Reds keep on achieving a good to very good w-l ratio, play a generally exciting brand of rugby, and, every few years, get into the S15 Finals and maybe win the thing again, and (b) there are and remain some charismatic, highly skilful, talisman-like players in the Reds like QC (Quade Cooper), WG, DI, SH, BR that the fans love to come back and watch time and again. Period.
All the lovely State-wide structures and super management promotions and smooth hand-overs in the world will not alter the above rock-hard facts. Fuck the Reds' remarkable progress up and destroy the momentum so priceless in the Reds today, recruit badly and/or lose key players via the wrong coach or coaching ability, and QLD rugby will as night follows day fall back into a dark and barren place and the beautiful bigger pictures will all have fallen off the walls as the hanging hooks get reclaimed by the unpaid suppliers.
Therein, as above, lies the passionate centre of my serious concern over today's fear-inducing news.
One core, and core cubed, point if I may: The demonstrated business and economic and fan-love and junior-QLD-rugby-player enrolling facts are in, over the period 2009-2011 inclusive, and they are unambiguously these:
For all of QLD rugby to get into a state of motivation, excitement, massively increased $ income, TV viewership figures up, Brisbanites loving the game of rugby again after 'the lost years', etc etc, there is NOTHING more important than that (a) that the Reds keep on achieving a good to very good w-l ratio, play a generally exciting brand of rugby, and, every few years, get into the S15 Finals and maybe win the thing again, and (b) there are and remain some charismatic, highly skilful, talisman-like players in the Reds like QC (Quade Cooper), WG, DI, SH, BR that the fans love to come back and watch time and again. Period.
All the lovely State-wide structures and super management promotions and smooth hand-overs in the world will not alter the above rock-hard facts. Fuck the Reds' remarkable progress up and destroy the momentum so priceless in the Reds today, recruit badly and/or lose key players via the wrong coach or coaching ability, and QLD rugby will as night follows day fall back into a dark and barren place and the beautiful bigger pictures will all have fallen off the walls as the hanging hooks get reclaimed by the unpaid suppliers.
Therein, as above, lies the passionate centre of my serious concern over today's fear-inducing news.
Ulrich
Nev Cottrell (35)
QLD Rugby obviously have a reason for acquiring Richard Graham and it is quite possible that it is done on the recommendation of Mr. McKenzie. To my knowledge Eastern Province (SA) fell into the abyss under the tutelage of Allistair Coetzee. He then became Jake's assistant and later had Rassie as his director of coaching and today he's a good coach and probably the next bok coach.
Therefore even if Mr. Graham is not the greatest coach now, perhaps he will grow tremendously under McKenzie's structures and guidance. Therefore, in the medium-term its a great thing for Australian rugby. I think that the Force should look to employ a local coach to suit their culture. Just my opinion.
Therefore even if Mr. Graham is not the greatest coach now, perhaps he will grow tremendously under McKenzie's structures and guidance. Therefore, in the medium-term its a great thing for Australian rugby. I think that the Force should look to employ a local coach to suit their culture. Just my opinion.
kiap
Steve Williams (59)
I have my doubts on this normal process question. News of a plum head coaching job would have got out before long, would have been advertised, and leading candidates publicly identified or speculated on before the decision. The reason it may not have happened this way is because the new coach may not actually be in the top-dog coaching position at the Reds, for at least one season or more, anyway. It's been stated that Link will be working very closely with RG and the Reds next season.
Job titles are just job titles. In the wake of defence coach Matt Taylor leaving the Reds, we don't know what sort of deal Woody has got with the Reds. It may well be that, by the time Link exits the frame, the club has an option of head-hunting someone more credentialed into Links top-dog coaching position. Alternatively, if RG excels, he gets a go at really being in charge.
Woody may well have jumped before being pushed from the Force. Both parties had the option of exiting the contract at the end of this season, and they would have been weighing their options. In the Force presser, the CEO indicated he had been talking with other coaching candidates for some time (at least two weeks).
Richo
John Thornett (49)
Geez, RH. You're lamenting something that hasn't even happened yet? Haven't you ever seen a glass half full?
I thought the popular view around here was that Link should take over the Wallabies sooner rather than later... and definitely no later than post-Lions. Doesn't this set that up well, while also proving QLD with good succession options and a more holistic coaching structure? You can complain about the minutae -- the timing, whether RG was the best possible choice, etc. -- but I really don't see the sky falling just yet.
I thought the popular view around here was that Link should take over the Wallabies sooner rather than later... and definitely no later than post-Lions. Doesn't this set that up well, while also proving QLD with good succession options and a more holistic coaching structure? You can complain about the minutae -- the timing, whether RG was the best possible choice, etc. -- but I really don't see the sky falling just yet.
M
Moono75
Guest
I can't see RG seeing out the season over here. I think the general opinion is that if he's not committed to the Force pack your bags and get out of town. Assistant coaches can see out the remainder of the season. Absolutely no reason to keep him on. If he hasn't imparted any coaching gems and yoda like wisdom by now its unlikley he will do so in the next 8 rounds.
kiap
Steve Williams (59)
If it were AFL, that would be the case I think, Moono. Pay him out and wave him out. With rugby it hasn't seemed as certain, IMO. Eight rounds is not that long, either. I think the Force have been mulling the coaching situation for quite a while already, too. Chances are they would have pulled the pin in 8 weeks time anyway.
Yoda said on his deathbed 'Strong am I with the Force, but not that strong' so it's debatable he imparted Yoda like wisdom...
M
Moono75
Guest
yoda also said something about....you have a sister.....Oh my God does Richard Graham have a sister.....Force for the first female Super Rugby coach! Our journey to the dark side is complete!
M
Moono75
Guest
Good to see Vern Reid say Pocock will take an increased role in the recruitment of players to the Force. Good move...keep Poey distracted and he may not realise anything has happened.....ssssshhhhhhh.
Interesting times ahead.
Interesting times ahead.
Boomer
Alfred Walker (16)
kiap
Steve Williams (59)
"Other coaches believed to be in the running are former Wallabies assistant coach Tim Lane, ex-England attack coach Brian Smith, former Waratahs attack coach Todd Louden, Canterbury NPC coach Rob Penney and Force assistant Phil Blake."
Hmmm. Probably just got those names schlepping around a few online forums.
Hmmm. Probably just got those names schlepping around a few online forums.
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