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Robbie Deans

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ChargerWA

ChargerWA

Mark Loane (55)
I just finished the Deans Biography. It left me with mixed feelings. I actually beforehand expected to feel slightly guilty for being such a strident critic of his, once how good a bloke he is was revealed. And in truth there was a small measure of that as he is no doubt a quality individual, but it was largely washed away by residual anger about ludicrous players selections and his frustrating Robbie speak.

But what I took away from it was I don't think the decline in behaviour standards of the Wallaby playing group, which have largely been laid at his door can be so easily attributed. He walked into a group with entitlement issues and was blindsided by it. He had come from such a different culture where in the Canterbury/Crusaders/AB's have largely managed to maintain the player ethos of the amateur era.

He mentions hearing that the Captain of the Wallabies had called a team meeting after arriving on tour when their backs were to the wall, which Robbie assumed was to be about Rugby, but afterwards found out the players were just polishing up the social itinerary while they were away. There were quite a few disheartening anecdotes similar to that along the way as well.

But there was one quote which struck me. It succinctly identified the key issue within the playing group that we are still suffering with today.

"We lost a huge amount of leadership with him [Pocock] because he is a bloke who stands up against the tide on and off the field. He's prepared to do what's right. He's got the total respect of the playing group and he has the ability to be a momentum shifter in-game. Poey can stop any opponent in his tracks. He's a huge influence and a massive loss to the playing group."
 
ChargerWA

ChargerWA

Mark Loane (55)
Incidentally, I wouldn't recommend the book. It lacked insight and was light on insider details (which if we're honest is what you really want from a book like this).
 
Teh Other Dave

Teh Other Dave

Alan Cameron (40)
It's funny, we have to remember that when Knuckles resigned from the Wallabies, a few hundred test matches worth of players left as well. Deans had to bring in fresh blood. I just don't think his approach worked in this context; in fact, it's tempting to believe that the former Marist teacher would have been better suited to moulding such a group.
I feel we would have gained more by Deans as coach bringing in new talent in 2006 and 7 with the Gregans and Larkhams still around; imagine fronting up to camp alongside Stirling Mortlock.
Unfortunately, we probably still would have exited in the quarter finals in France... our scrum was bordering on Rugby League and the second largest state team in the country was a basket case (a backline featuring Berrick Barnes and Lloyd Johansson - enough said).
 
Inside Shoulder

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
ChargerWA said:
Incidentally, I wouldn't recommend the book. It lacked insight and was light on insider details (which if we're honest is what you really want from a book like this).
Click to expand...

I haven't finished it but it is frustrating so far because there is next to no criticism of the guy or even really a balanced assessment of his career: its a hagiography.
It may be that no one was prepared to speak adversely of him - but if that were the case he would not have missed the AB's job, you'd think.
 
ChargerWA

ChargerWA

Mark Loane (55)
Teh Other Dave said:
It's funny, we have to remember that when Knuckles resigned from the Wallabies, a few hundred test matches worth of players left as well. Deans had to bring in fresh blood. I just don't think his approach worked in this context; in fact, it's tempting to believe that the former Marist teacher would have been better suited to moulding such a group.
I feel we would have gained more by Deans as coach bringing in new talent in 2006 and 7 with the Gregans and Larkhams still around; imagine fronting up to camp alongside Stirling Mortlock.
Unfortunately, we probably still would have exited in the quarter finals in France. our scrum was bordering on Rugby League and the second largest state team in the country was a basket case (a backline featuring Berrick Barnes and Lloyd Johansson - enough said).
Click to expand...
In the Biography, Dean's doesn't really paint it as being forced to replace older/experienced players out of necessity. He claims he had to clean a lot of them out because he didn't think they were up to the task.
 
Grandmaster Flash

Grandmaster Flash

Johnnie Wallace (23)
Teh Other Dave said:
I feel we would have gained more by Deans as coach bringing in new talent in 2006 and 7 with the Gregans and Larkhams still around; imagine fronting up to camp alongside Stirling Mortlock.
Unfortunately, we probably still would have exited in the quarter finals in France. our scrum was bordering on Rugby League and the second largest state team in the country was a basket case (a backline featuring Berrick Barnes and Lloyd Johansson - enough said).
Click to expand...

Funnily enough I watched the Wales v Wallabies pool game from '07 a few nights ago ahead of a trip to Cardiff next weekend and the backline was still pretty formidable.

Gregan (who played very well)
Barnes (was still green but set up a great try)
Mitchell
Giteau
Mortlock
Tuqiri
Latham

Mortlock was dominant until he went off after injuring himself but also hit Gareth Thomas so hard he was forced off. Latham was in the form of his life and scored two tries. Mitchell was still poor in contact at that stage, but Tuqiri and Gits were playing well.

But the forward pack was another story: starting props were Dunning and Guy Sheperdson, Squeaky at 2. Vickerman and Sharpe as the locks who had quiet games, Elsom at six who ran around like a headless chook most of the time, with Palu and Smith doing most of the damage/work between them.

But agree re if we had Deans in 06/07 his Wallabies tenure may have been quite different - losing Gregan/Larkham/Latham alone is close to 300 caps.
 
Ruggo

Ruggo

Mark Ella (57)
I get the feeling Deans was a victim of our games administration. They wanted his success but were not mature enough to embrace the changes required and stay the course. Deans strikes me as the type of bloke who don't give up easy so kept battling on despite it spiraling in decline. His mistakes are well documented but I think this is the bigger underlying issue.

The fact that the Messiah most of us wanted him replaced by fell after 12 months should send huge alarm bells ringing.
 
Slim 293

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Grandmaster Flash said:
Funnily enough I watched the Wales v Wallabies pool game from '07 a few nights ago ahead of a trip to Cardiff next weekend and the backline was still pretty formidable.

Gregan (who played very well)
Barnes (was still green but set up a great try)
Mitchell
Giteau
Mortlock
Tuqiri
Latham

Mortlock was dominant until he went off after injuring himself but also hit Gareth Thomas so hard he was forced off. Latham was in the form of his life and scored two tries. Mitchell was still poor in contact at that stage, but Tuqiri and Gits were playing well.

But the forward pack was another story: starting props were Dunning and Guy Sheperdson, Squeaky at 2. Vickerman and Sharpe as the locks who had quiet games, Elsom at six who ran around like a headless chook most of the time, with Palu and Smith doing most of the damage/work between them.

But agree re if we had Deans in 06/07 his Wallabies tenure may have been quite different - losing Gregan/Larkham/Latham alone is close to 300 caps.
Click to expand...

That was also Moore's first year of being our mainstay hooker, but even back then he displayed the traits of a seasoned player............

Still, that's such a green frontrow.........
 
Slim 293

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Anyways, in response to Deans' book I'm surprised we haven't seen one of Spiro's bi-annual articles blaming Brumbies' player power for all current issues........... or have I missed it?
 
Biffo

Biffo

Ken Catchpole (46)
Ruggo said:
Deans ...

The fact that the Messiah most of us wanted him replaced by fell after 12 months should send huge alarm bells ringing.
Click to expand...


may i, please, point out that we don't (yet) know whether The Coach "fell", "was pushed" or just "quit"?

that the alarms rung by a large minority (of us) were not heard before Robbie D was hung should cause significant concern that new and old alarms may not be heard now.

the only indicated changes i have seen since The Coach left have been that (1) the ARU is adding to its spin capacity by appointing an invisible media manipulator (2) the ARU may appoint a go-between for the BillyPoo/TGC axis.

i can't decide which of those two is the greater cause for worry.

i do add that there is more (far, far more) to the ARU/rugby in Australia "problem" than Kurtley Beale's poor social skills and workplace behaviour or, for that matter, his fondness for liquid stimulants.
 
TahDan

TahDan

Cyril Towers (30)
ChargerWA said:
I just finished the Deans Biography. It left me with mixed feelings. I actually beforehand expected to feel slightly guilty for being such a strident critic of his, once how good a bloke he is was revealed. And in truth there was a small measure of that as he is no doubt a quality individual, but it was largely washed away by residual anger about ludicrous players selections and his frustrating Robbie speak.

But what I took away from it was I don't think the decline in behaviour standards of the Wallaby playing group, which have largely been laid at his door can be so easily attributed. He walked into a group with entitlement issues and was blindsided by it. He had come from such a different culture where in the Canterbury/Crusaders/AB's have largely managed to maintain the player ethos of the amateur era.

He mentions hearing that the Captain of the Wallabies had called a team meeting after arriving on tour when their backs were to the wall, which Robbie assumed was to be about Rugby, but afterwards found out the players were just polishing up the social itinerary while they were away. There were quite a few disheartening anecdotes similar to that along the way as well.

But there was one quote which struck me. It succinctly identified the key issue within the playing group that we are still suffering with today.

"We lost a huge amount of leadership with him [Pocock] because he is a bloke who stands up against the tide on and off the field. He's prepared to do what's right. He's got the total respect of the playing group and he has the ability to be a momentum shifter in-game. Poey can stop any opponent in his tracks. He's a huge influence and a massive loss to the playing group."
Click to expand...


I've always had a lot of time for Robbie, even if I too was left a little exasperated by his selections. I've not read the book yet, but in his interviews about it over in NZ, you can see that he's a very circumspect and fair minded bloke, and that he genuinely cared deeply about the game in Australia.

Sadly, it does seem like he wasn't quite prepared for the type of player culture we have here, which honestly probably requires a more hard nosed and aggressive coach happy to crack heads and see people off when they're not pulling their weight.
 
Biffo

Biffo

Ken Catchpole (46)
TahDan said:
Sadly, it does seem like he wasn't quite prepared for the type of player culture we have here, which honestly probably requires a more hard nosed and aggressive coach happy to crack heads and see people off when they're not pulling their weight.
Click to expand...

you might add "policy-making, planning, management and administrative" to the "type of player" cultures that rocked Robbie D.
 
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