Rugby League really gives me the shits

[Torn Hammy]

Things are one the rise here (I'd like to believe) but there is still a serious gulf between Australian club and American club rugby.

Thanks for that insight Rugger. The one thing you have which will accelerate you past many rugby nations is your college sports system. Researching some US study options I was pleasantly surprised to find most universties had a rugby program. And nearly all embraced the 15 man game, sevens rugby and women's rugby as well. Cal, Cal Poly, Dartmouth and Yale (women) seem to be taking giant steps because of their scholarship support of rugby. I watched the final between Cal and Cal Poly (2011?) and rated the rugby very highly. I remember reading somewhere that our very own Bruce Ross spent time in the US studying the college sports programs and used this knowledge to turn USyd's fortunes around. There are those, I've heard, who observed that his notes on 'NCAA Regulation Skullduggery' required their own suitcase and cost him $300 in excess baggage! With the added attraction of sevens (olympics) and womens rugby (gender scholarship equity) there is every reason to believe that US rugby's rise could be as fast and as successful as that of USydney's.

 

[Rassie]

Rugby would have been the no 1 pass time of the US if they had the media coverage for the modern Olympics back then in the 1920's.

 

[USARugger]

Cal-Berkeley, Arkansas State, Life, BYU compose the highest tier of rugby right now at the college level. I've played them all in 7s (different Division for 15s) and they are top shelf teams. BYU was my first time playing against Polynesian boys, it was a long day.

BYU broadcasts their rugby games on their website and archives old ones. They're a very professional side and the broadcasts are pretty well done.

College Rugby in the USA is under the umbrella of USA Rugby, not the NCAA.

 

[Ash]

Some interesting quotes from SBW. To me, it's good to see code hoppers who don't bag out their other games.

When assistant coach Jason Taylor addressed the squad at a meeting before the start of the season, Williams kept notes of what he said – something the former Parramatta and South Sydney coach had not seen any NRL player do.

"I got that from rugby because there are so many different aspects of the game that you have to know and I reckon that is why I got to understand it," Williams said.

"I find that if I write down a heap of things when we are talking at meetings I can go back and take out the things I need.

"But league is not an overly complicated game to be honest and I am a bit embarrassed to take my pen and notepad into the meetings.

"So I just try to be really attentive and take out the few key things that they say in video and I go back and write it down when I get home."

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/...-footy-can-do-the-talking-20130411-2hoch.html

 

[BPC]

Yeah it was ugly, they put me in on the wing and in about five minutes I was running with the forward pods and going for turnovers. Was way more comfortable in tight after 15 years of wrestling! Got moved to 7 starting at the next practice

Sounds like my brother. A district spinter at high school, he kept getting picked on the wings but annoyed the hell out of his coaches by ploughing into the rucks. A few broken noses later (he still can't breathe out of one side of his nose) he was playing flanker and captain of the 2ndXV. A few years (and more than a few kilograms* later) he was playing hooker in lower grade for the Wasps then London Welsh.

* 1 kilogram = 2.205 pounds for those who are yet to embrace the metric system

 

[Braveheart81]

Some interesting quotes from SBW. To me, it's good to see code hoppers who don't bag out their other games.

It does seem that SBW has turned into a real pro. He's clearly matured a lot and is thinking for himself more rather than spouting rubbish from poor influences.

He obviously said some dumb things after the Mundine fight, but apart from that there's a lot to like about the way he goes about his business.

Clearly he's a bit of a mercenary for hire, but he seems to be doing everything he can to bring everything to the table that he can for his employer whilst they employ him.

 

[Bullrush]

It does seem that SBW has turned into a real pro. He's clearly matured a lot and is thinking for himself more rather than spouting rubbish from poor influences.

He obviously said some dumb things after the Mundine fight, but apart from that there's a lot to like about the way he goes about his business.

Clearly he's a bit of a mercenary for hire, but he seems to be doing everything he can to bring everything to the table that he can for his employer whilst they employ him.

If you had the money and you could get him, you'd be stark raving mad not to pick up SBW if you ran any kind of rugby/league club.

The guys generates a heap of publicity, he works hard, he gets on well with team-mates, coaches, staff etc and he mostly stays out of trouble. Oh...and he's one of the best players on the field not matter which code he's playing.

He really is a true professional.....

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Cal-Berkeley, Arkansas State, Life, BYU compose the highest tier of rugby right now at the college level. I've played them all in 7s (different Division for 15s) and they are top shelf teams. BYU was my first time playing against Polynesian boys, it was a long day.

BYU broadcasts their rugby games on their website and archives old ones. They're a very professional side and the broadcasts are pretty well done.

College Rugby in the USA is under the umbrella of USA Rugby, not the NCAA.

Central Washington have been doing a good job of their webcasts of late. I'd add St Mary's as a program nipping at the heals of the likes of Cal and BYU. There are actually a few smaller schools chasing the varsity dream in thew US. Lindenwood, Wheeling Jesuit, Notre Dame College (not the Uni). Then there's the Uni's with rapidly expanding endowment like Notre Dame University, Penn and such.

 

[USARugger]

Central Washington have been doing a good job of their webcasts of late. I'd add St Mary's as a program nipping at the heals of the likes of Cal and BYU. There are actually a few smaller schools chasing the varsity dream in thew US. Lindenwood, Wheeling Jesuit, Notre Dame College (not the Uni). Then there's the Uni's with rapidly expanding endowment like Notre Dame University, Penn and such.

Yeah I'd put CWU and St. Mary's directly beneath them, those four are just a mark above the rest right now. I'm aware of Lindenwood buying a DII championship. Jesuit has been getting some spotty results this year but their entire squad is freshman I believe so they will grow. Did you mean Penn State?

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Yeah I'd put CWU and St. Mary's directly beneath them, those four are just a mark above the rest right now. I'm aware of Lindenwood buying a DII championship. Jesuit has been getting some spotty results this year but their entire squad is freshman I believe so they will grow. Did you mean Penn State?

Yeah, Penn State. Lindenwood have had a reasonable year in D1 but have certainly discovered the step up wasn't going to be as easy as they thought. Been smacked twice by Ark St. Wheeling's program is very new and as you said, full of freshmen. I reckon they'll start seeing results come the time most of them a seniors.

 

[USARugger]

There's just an enormous gulf between DII and DI-A. To be honest there's an enormous gulf between DI-AA and DI-A and a pretty big gulf between the bottom of DI-A and the top of DI-A. Ark St. is a pretty classy South African exchange student program

I do hope they pull away from that and start to develop more of their own talent but I won't lie, Zac Mizell has been one of my favorite college players to watch for a while.

One thing I'd really like to see would be a net improvement across the board. Right now we've got a handful of programs really pulling away from the pack and while that is all good and well I feel like the majority of programs have stagnated over the past few years. One thing that breaks my heart is watching programs flounder or die because of an uncooperative campus recreation department. USA Rugby really needs to start pressuring/encouraging universities to put pressure on their campus rec. department to work with the teams. The differences between amateur clubs with a good campus rec. department who have access to facilities around campus etc. and the teams that don't are mind-blowingly obvious. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that the first step to varsity status is getting the program established with the campus rec. department and begin regularly getting access to various athletic facilities around the campus. It's pretty fuckin' hard to run team weight sessions or indoor practices if campus rec. has you locked out of all the buildings or refuses to give you time slots. Likewise, it's pretty fuckin' impossible to compete with teams who are able to organize sessions like these.

There are some great highschool programs on the rise too now though to compete with Jesuit/Gonzaga/Xavier etc:

Got turned on to Perry St. Pride by one of our wingers who used to play for them when they were still Hyde Rugby. Their coaches have done a pretty good job of converting some great athletes to good rugby players. There are still some skill issues even in this clip but they are definitely on a level above most schoolboy programs here, they also play an adventurous style that I love to watch.

On a personal note I'm getting ready to wrap up my college rugby career. Essentially been unable to play through injury for the past ~15 months and I'm getting towards the end of my time at university so I'm starting to look into the local men's clubs. Just doesn't feel in the spirit of the game for me to come back for a final partial-season and displace any of the younger guys who have earned their spots in the 1st/2nd XVs.

 

[biggsy]

I really hate rugby league with a passion.

 

[terry j]

Had to keep watching the vid just to hear the complete song!

It's funny you ended with your last para.

Half way thru reading this post (combined with your earlier ones) and I was wondering to myself whether you should position yourself into the management structure somehow. You obv have a love for the game, a desire for it to expand and be successful over there, and you also seem to be a 'deep' thinker on the game both on and off the field. Then you gave your last para.

I think when we are young we always think about playing the game as a means of participating, and very few of us have the skills to make it to the top flight. As I grew older I began to think maybe the smarter ones were the refs, yes they have a needed skill set that set's them apart, but hey they don't have too bad a gig when you think about it! (did I not see walsh one weekend reffing a final at wembley, a week or so later a super game back down under?)

Twas similar ponderings about you. You sound like a guy who might be able to make a difference. Just how you get into that side of things tho...

anyway, thanks for the clip!

(arhggh, I type too slowly. That was directed at usa rugger)

 

[Penguin]

League might suck to watch in the modern age, but their fantasy football set up shits all over the Rugby one :-D

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

There's just an enormous gulf between DII and DI-A. To be honest there's an enormous gulf between DI-AA and DI-A and a pretty big gulf between the bottom of DI-A and the top of DI-A. Ark St. is a pretty classy South African exchange student program

I do hope they pull away from that and start to develop more of their own talent but I won't lie, Zac Mizell has been one of my favorite college players to watch for a while.

One thing I'd really like to see would be a net improvement across the board. Right now we've got a handful of programs really pulling away from the pack and while that is all good and well I feel like the majority of programs have stagnated over the past few years. One thing that breaks my heart is watching programs flounder or die because of an uncooperative campus recreation department. USA Rugby really needs to start pressuring/encouraging universities to put pressure on their campus rec. department to work with the teams. The differences between amateur clubs with a good campus rec. department who have access to facilities around campus etc. and the teams that don't are mind-blowingly obvious. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that the first step to varsity status is getting the program established with the campus rec. department and begin regularly getting access to various athletic facilities around the campus. It's pretty fuckin' hard to run team weight sessions or indoor practices if campus rec. has you locked out of all the buildings or refuses to give you time slots. Likewise, it's pretty fuckin' impossible to compete with teams who are able to organize sessions like these.

There are some great highschool programs on the rise too now though to compete with Jesuit/Gonzaga/Xavier etc:

Got turned on to Perry St. Pride by one of our wingers who used to play for them when they were still Hyde Rugby. Their coaches have done a pretty good job of converting some great athletes to good rugby players. There are still some skill issues even in this clip but they are definitely on a level above most schoolboy programs here, they also play an adventurous style that I love to watch.

On a personal note I'm getting ready to wrap up my college rugby career. Essentially been unable to play through injury for the past ~15 months and I'm getting towards the end of my time at university so I'm starting to look into the local men's clubs. Just doesn't feel in the spirit of the game for me to come back for a final partial-season and displace any of the younger guys who have earned their spots in the 1st/2nd XVs.

Been watching clips of Perry St for a while now. Quite like the potential that exists in their 10,12 and 13 combination. Very adventurous Rugby. I'll hopefully get to experience the relative level of the likes of Jesuit/Xavier and Gonzaga in a few seasons time. We are already discussing the prospects of touring with the boys I'm coaching in a few years (most are coming across from League so we want a couple of seasons under our belt before we go) but I'm keen for a run at the big Catholic programs considering we're a Catholic school as well.

Oh, and as you are now preparing to leave college and move into club rugby, what is your interest in junior coaching?

 

[USARugger]

terry j

I'm only 22 so if I can shake this I've got another good ~10 years of playing left in me. I'd like to give Division 1 Men's rugby at least a few years of concerted effort. One of the local clubs has a competitive 15s side and one of the top 7s programs in the country so that's probably where I'll be running out to once I'm healthy again. A couple of my closer buddies from college already play for them or are going to be in the next 1-2 years so it'll be good times as usual.

I've already got aspirations to get into coaching once I finally decide I'm done playing. I've made it a personal goal to get coaching certified by the time I'm 30, at the latest. If USARugby has grown by then and gotten their act together I may be interested in pursuing an administrative career through them later in life. I'm getting ready to pursue my Master's in Public Health in two years after which I'll likely being going into PH Administration/Management work. I'd like to be able to take what I learn from that and translate it to front-office or management work with a franchise. Gonna be tough though, I can't imagine many overseas franchises are looking for American management personnel or front office staff. I've got my fingers crossed that in the next 20 years a professional domestic league will pop up in the USA, or something similar.

WorkingClassRugger

Their fly-half is a really bright talent. I'm looking forward to facing off with him on the Men's 7s circuit in a few years, I've heard he's quite the 7s player. Their 13 runs the ball like a true gridiron convert if you catch my drift . In all fairness though I think 13 is one of the hardest positions to coach well, or at least to have that coaching translate on the field, at that age. Being the effective 'hinge' of the backs in both attack and defense they can be the best friend or worst enemy of your backs pretty easily.

I'm definitely going to be looking into some junior coaching opportunities in the coming years.

 

[terry j]

ok usa r

miss read your post! sorry bout that.

good to see you're thinking ahead tho. are there different 'classes' of coaching credentials? Hmm, that came out wrong. What I mean is, the same level of coach standard, is a usa one the same 'worth' as a NZ one? Hmm, along that line, which country would be the highest or held in most esteem? I said NZ cause I guess most would assume they are the best worldwide, does that mean an nz trained coach is held as a higher standard?

I love free ranging threads, and love the ground this one has covered.

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

Rugger, what happens to all the college fotballers who don't get drafted. Could they be recruited by the US rugby clubs?

they go to the CFL canadian football league or over to europe where it has a following in germany particularly. also arena football league.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

terry j

I'm only 22 so if I can shake this I've got another good ~10 years of playing left in me. I'd like to give Division 1 Men's rugby at least a few years of concerted effort. One of the local clubs has a competitive 15s side and one of the top 7s programs in the country so that's probably where I'll be running out to once I'm healthy again. A couple of my closer buddies from college already play for them or are going to be in the next 1-2 years so it'll be good times as usual.

I've already got aspirations to get into coaching once I finally decide I'm done playing. I've made it a personal goal to get coaching certified by the time I'm 30, at the latest. If USARugby has grown by then and gotten their act together I may be interested in pursuing an administrative career through them later in life. I'm getting ready to pursue my Master's in Public Health in two years after which I'll likely being going into PH Administration/Management work. I'd like to be able to take what I learn from that and translate it to front-office or management work with a franchise. Gonna be tough though, I can't imagine many overseas franchises are looking for American management personnel or front office staff. I've got my fingers crossed that in the next 20 years a professional domestic league will pop up in the USA, or something similar.

WorkingClassRugger

Their fly-half is a really bright talent. I'm looking forward to facing off with him on the Men's 7s circuit in a few years, I've heard he's quite the 7s player. Their 13 runs the ball like a true gridiron convert if you catch my drift . In all fairness though I think 13 is one of the hardest positions to coach well, or at least to have that coaching translate on the field, at that age. Being the effective 'hinge' of the backs in both attack and defense they can be the best friend or worst enemy of your backs pretty easily.

I'm definitely going to be looking into some junior coaching opportunities in the coming years.

Which club?

As for the admin side in a franchise. You never know, may be one of the groups working on pro rugby in the States might succeed and you'll have that opportunity on your doorstep.

 

[TOCC]

Maybe this USA rugby chat is deserving of its own thread... It's distracting us from what we really want to do, which is rag on rugby league