RUPA supports a Draft System - Wayne Smith 'Australian'

[Highlander35]

Was a little bit more emotionally charged than perhaps warranted.

I mean a statement along the lines of "In my opinion, there is a level of talent currently being ignored in the club system by the Super Sides. All of them, particularly the Rebels and Force due to sheer weight of numbers, would benefit by reducing international recruitment in favour of recruiting players currently playing and residing within Australia." That's something that's reasonable and agreeable.

Whereas it came across as "See these players that we've rejected time after time after time? We're so good we don't need them, but your players are so incompetent, they'd be better than what you have. Your recruiting staff must be even worse at their jobs than your players are at theirs! (Rich person laugh)"

 

[Ozee316]

NRC won't be massively subsidised by the ARU. That lesson was learned in 2007.

Yes, the intention is for it to grow and eventually there will be (all going well) more money for non-super rugby players, but it's a gradual path.

As per other posters this morning, the NRC licensees have to largely pay their own way. The Foxtel deal only covers running costs for the next 4 years or so, which are not insignificant for a tournament that spans a continent.

It's not possible to equate this competition with what happens in New Zealand. A fully national comp sits on stony ground here. Did you know, for example, that Australia had a two-tiered provincial rugby championship 48 years ago?

It lasted less than a decade and was virtually extinct by the time the NPC was begun in NZ. The reason was that the ARU ran out of money. Sound familiar? Several attempted national comps have been started and turned to dust in the last five decades. The take-home message is that any such tournament has to be largely self-sustainable.

The NPC in New Zealand has never been self funding.

There was no Super Rugby back then and Rugby was not professional.

The NRC players will be playing alongside Super players who just had their salaries raised by the ARU. There is no doubt the ARU will also raise wages for NRC players for fairness, to go with inflation and to support the Super teams to run smaller squads.

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[Ozee316]

The dropping of the Sydney Stars in part signals an intention to be able to pay higher wages in a slimmed down competition

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[Braveheart81]

The dropping of the Sydney Stars in part signals an intention to be able to pay higher wages in a slimmed down competition

I don't see on what basis you can say this.

Every piece of information available suggests it was because there were too many NSW based teams and they couldn't field enough Super Rugby players to be competitive.

 

[Train Without a Station]

The NRC players will be playing alongside Super players who just had their salaries raised by the ARU. There is no doubt the ARU will also raise wages for NRC players for fairness, to go with inflation and to support the Super teams to run smaller squads.

Where have Super Rugby players had their salaries increased?

How will Super Rugby have smaller squads? Taking the Reds for example, they had something like 5 players outside their 23 available for Round 2. How will they be by the end of the season?

 

[Ozee316]

I thought you followed the Annual Reports TWAS. All player payments have been increased including the Super Clubs salary cap

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[Ozee316]

Super Clubs need to run what are called "wider training squads" to deal with injuries. This is where NZ and SA have an advantage because they have more Semi-Pro players training year round at a higher level.

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[Ozee316]

picking a club player to slot into Super rugby for injury is not such a stretch if they are on a Semi-Pro contract that allows them to train year round

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[Ozee316]

this is why you see the Rebels a delicious Reds really utilising their NRC teams as extended training squads.

I this case players need to train year round and need to be paid

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[Train Without a Station]

I thought you followed the Annual Reports TWAS. All player payments have been increased including the Super Clubs salary cap

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Where?

I just googled it. In 2012 there was talk of the salary cap being increased from $4M to $4.8M, though the ARU funding was to remain at $4M.

In 2014 the Salary Cap was at $4.5M.

Where has it been announced that the cap was increased, or any minimum salaries increased? Since what was announced there is no annual reports available?

Give me a link.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Super Clubs need to run what are called "wider training squads" to deal with injuries. This is where NZ and SA have an advantage because they have more Semi-Pro players training year round at a higher level.

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These players are already paid. There are supplementary contracts and WTS contracts that already exist.

 

[Ozee316]

It is a special form of elitism to suggest that only Super Rugby players should be paid and the players playing in the commercial competition beside them should not. Or should do so for peanuts.

Don't think the ARU shares your view, nor RUPA, nor the coaches, nor the agents nor the players themselves.

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[Ozee316]

There are many angles against your lines of argument. If all their hours of training and games are added up 5k may come out to less than minimum wage in Australia which has high living costs.

RUPA would not wait while all other wages are raised - coaches, cleaners, managers, Super Player everyone except NRC players. There would be huge pressure to raise the NRC wage. It matters not if an organisation is making a profit or loss.

Then the issue of fairness again which RUPA would hammer with the ARU and the ARU would be quite sympathetic to.

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[Ozee316]

Even to keep in line with inflation folks. There is a new TV deal and you all assume the NRC is gonna lose out for no other reason than you want the ARU to not spend money on them.

The ARU may just prioritise the NRC higher than you think.

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[Train Without a Station]

It is a special form of elitism to suggest that only Super Rugby players should be paid and the players playing in the commercial competition beside them should not. Or should do so for peanuts.

Don't think the ARU shares your view, nor RUPA, nor the coaches, nor the agents nor the players themselves.

No. It's a special form of common sense. No actually, just common sense, to suggest that the lesser players playing in a competition should not be paid, until that competition makes enough money to pay them.

Right now the Super Rugby players are the better players and the draw card.

 

[Train Without a Station]

There is not a "new" TV Deal. The NRC has been retained on it's current deal. It's just been secured for 5 years.

 

[I like to watch]

It is a special form of elitism to suggest that only Super Rugby players should be paid and the players playing in the commercial competition beside them should not. Or should do so for peanuts.

Don't think the ARU shares your view, nor RUPA, nor the coaches, nor the agents nor the players themselves.

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It's not elitism,it's logic.

You might have a point if this was the only comp the Super players played in,but it's not.
You may as well say it's not fair that the 13 who is an investment banker,has a higher taxable income as the 9 who is a uni student.
What they earn outside of payments made directly by the NRC team are irrelevant.

 

[Ozee316]

Pulver made comments about the NRC being self funded and run by unions 3 years ago.

Before he cancelled the license for the Stars and before he won an extra 25m in broadcast money that you believe should only go to those who already have more money

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[Ozee316]

ARU has since taken more control over the NRC. None of us know the contractual details

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[kiap]

The NPC in New Zealand has never been self funding.

The NRC in Australia HAS TO BE largely self funding.

What happens here does not equate to the situation in NZ. Prior to 2011 Broadcast rights for the (then) ITM Cup were valued at ~US$20-30 million, or a rough figure of $6m a year.

The NRC Foxtel deal is a fraction of that and only covers logistics, not player salaries.

There is no doubt the ARU will also raise wages for NRC players for fairness, to go with inflation and to support the Super teams to run smaller squads.

I sincerely doubt the ARU will be tipping non-existent extra millions into these clubs anytime soon.

Any money for wage rises will have to found by NRC clubs.