RWC: JAP v SAM (Milton Keynes): POOL B
- Thread starter waiopehu oldboy
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Omar Comin'
Chilla Wilson (44)
So Japan go to 8 points. If they beat USA without a bonus point they'd be on 12.
If South Africa were to lose now to Scotland but get a losing bonus point they'd be on 8 points. They will almost certainly get a bonus point win against the US so would end up on 13.
If Scotland lose today and get a bonus point, then lose to Samoa and get a bonus point, they'd be on 12 points and go through on head to head!
If either of these situations happen it'll be a bit of a disgrace to have a team with 2 wins qualify ahead of a team with 3.
If South Africa were to lose now to Scotland but get a losing bonus point they'd be on 8 points. They will almost certainly get a bonus point win against the US so would end up on 13.
If Scotland lose today and get a bonus point, then lose to Samoa and get a bonus point, they'd be on 12 points and go through on head to head!
If either of these situations happen it'll be a bit of a disgrace to have a team with 2 wins qualify ahead of a team with 3.
Dewald Nel
Cyril Towers (30)
Who are the jocks?
Either way, any of the top 3 teams in pool B can still go home before the quarter finals.
Cardiffblue
Jim Lenehan (48)
Scots
Dewald Nel
Cyril Towers (30)
They can only blame themselves for not collecting any bonus points in that case - teams know the permutations when they enter the world cup.
Omar Comin'
Chilla Wilson (44)
Sure, but you can't deny it would be ridiculous and really highlight a big problem with the current bonus point system. It would make a bit of a mockery of the tournament IMO.
There should be a change so that pools are decided first by number of wins, with bonus points, head to head and points difference only considered after that if teams are tied.
Perhaps if a team does end up ahead with just 2 wins (presuming Japan do get 3) the honourable thing to do would be to forfeit the place to them.
Omar Comin'
Chilla Wilson (44)
That said, I think it's unlikely to happen. It's much more likely that South Africa will beat Scotland and Scotland will beat Samoa.
Why would it be ridiculous?
If you have bonus points then they are part of the overall point scoring.
You can't have a count back method that puts a team on less competition points ahead of a team that has more. Of course any count back system only comes into play when points are tied.
You can certainly mount an argument that the four try bonus point should be replaced by the +3 tries system so it is harder to get two losing bonus points but that would be about it.
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Omar Comin'
Chilla Wilson (44)
Because surely winning games is 100 times more significant in a 5 team pool than scoring 4 tries or losing by <8 points. It just doesn't make sense for a team with a 3-1 record to lose out to a team with a 2-2 record. Doesn't that seem stupid to you? And I don't think it's the same as a team getting a leg up through bonus points in a longer league. Cups should be all about winning
Under my proposal it wouldn't be a count back method after teams are tied on competition points, it would be a count back method after teams are tied on wins.
Or they could just adjust the bonus points system so that it's impossible for a team with more wins to be overtaken in points by one with less.
This scenario is very unlikely to eventuate now that South Africa have beaten Scotland and kept them from getting a bonus point - but the possibility of it should be eliminated in future IMO.
You may as well get rid of a bonus point system then. If number of wins is the sole predictor of where sides finish then there are already plenty of count back options for teams tied on wins.
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Omar Comin'
Chilla Wilson (44)
Doesn't make a difference to me if they adjust the system or if they get rid of them altogether. But when they added bonus points to the world cup I'm sure the purpose in mind was to split teams with equal wins.
Omar Comin'
Chilla Wilson (44)
Another interesting thing about this result is that it makes it quite likely that none of Fiji, Samoa or Tonga will qualify automatically for the 2019 world cup. For the last couple of tournaments there has only been 1 Oceania qualifying spot - the 2nd team didn't even make it to the repechage.
I'd guess that may change for the next tournament (I'd guess the repechage spot for Asia 2 will change to Oceania 2, given Japan's automatic qualification) but it seems likely that one, if not two of the islander teams will not make it to Japan in 2019.
I'd guess that may change for the next tournament (I'd guess the repechage spot for Asia 2 will change to Oceania 2, given Japan's automatic qualification) but it seems likely that one, if not two of the islander teams will not make it to Japan in 2019.
Dave Beat
Paul McLean (56)
Interesting - I've been pretty impressed with Fiji in the pool of death.
Dan54
Tim Horan (67)
Yep maybe a little harsh on Fiji, they been best of island teams, but even they haven't really threatened any of the top teams (second string teams) though to be fair they in hard pool.
Bardon
Peter Fenwicke (45)
It's a great time to be here in Japan. Just a few weeks ago most of my rugby conversations started along the lines of "No not soccer, rugby" followed by gesturing passing.
Now the Japanese teachers at my school come to me to talk about the upcoming Japan games.
Their performance in this world cup is going to have a huge impact on the reception the RWC gets in 2019. Up to now Japanese people looked beyond it to the 2020 Olympics. That's not true for a lot of Japanese people now.
Now the Japanese teachers at my school come to me to talk about the upcoming Japan games.
Their performance in this world cup is going to have a huge impact on the reception the RWC gets in 2019. Up to now Japanese people looked beyond it to the 2020 Olympics. That's not true for a lot of Japanese people now.
waiopehu oldboy
Stirling Mortlock (74)
I think the Samoan Chairman/ PM's persistant belittling of the players has been massively de-motivating, from what I've seen of their matches most look like they don't really want to be there. Most disappointing team of the Cup IMO.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
I think that Fiji jave improved their 15 man game this RWC and Tonga to a lesser degree. I suspect something is seriously wrong in Samoan rugby beyond the players. They look like an undisiplined rabble who met 5 minutes before kick-off.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
Samoa and Italy in a tie - they've both both backwards
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