School sporting scholarships/recruitment

[Muglair]

The Queenslad solution isn't the success that you might think. The opn slather approach has led to instances of boys changing schools at the start of term 3 in Year 12, to do nothing else but play rugby. A few posters have remarked on the fact that the whole school doesn't really go out and support the 1sts anymore as the team isn't really representative of the student body i.e. there isn't the 6 years of shared experience. So you have a series of all-star teams fighting it out to win a trophy which has been diminished in the eyes of their peers.

It's been said before that parents don't send their kids to GPS schools to be the development arm of the NSWRU. In fact up until the last 5 years or so the state system developed approximately the same number of schoolboy rugby players as the GPS (see the Schools Championship thread), the recent recruiting practices have fueled the myth that the GPS produces all the best rugby players. Look at the current Newington 1st XV 4 players from St Augustines, 2 from Randwick, 1 from Killara etc.

EDIT: I agree that the guidelines are too vague.

See, I told you this thread is circular. I am back to where I started, this is really complex and Qld might appear to have put as much effort into their pro scholarship rules as AAGPS did in theirs.

The schools need to put the effort in to find a comprehensive answer that everyone has to adhere to.

Hugh Jarse has indicated who he thinks is qualified, too complex for mere correspondents.

 

[Lee Grant]

Here is a followup response from Dr. Lambert to an article in the SMH

*********************************************

Saturday 21 September 2013

Dear Parents and Carers

I wrote to you yesterday about a matter of principle. Some GPS schools believe The Scots College is ‘buying’ or ‘importing’ talented sportsmen.

Today’s edition of the Sydney Morning Herald has continued to fuel the rumours by stating in a story that, “The rugby schools such as Newington and Scots lure talent with scholarships ...”, but this statement is incorrect.

The Scots College — our College — does not offer sporting scholarships nor do we offer other forms of inducement to attract talented sportsmen. This rumour has potential to damage our reputation and undermines confidence in the GPS sporting competitions.

In the past we would have been as gracious as possible and let incorrect reporting go through to the keeper, but not today. The College has already made contact with the journalist concerned who has agreed to edit the online version of the story.

We are seeking advice regarding a correction to the print version.

I know that a media report like this generates comment across the community.

Please be confident that if you hear people making judgment of Scots based on this report, or reports like it, they are false.

Once again, thank you for your support. I will keep you updated over the coming weeks.

Scots to the fore!

Dr Ian PM Lambert
Principal
.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

It seems that Mr Lambert has been upset by the article in the paper, so much so that he feels it necessary to write a second letter to his schools parents and carers.

Newington have also been maliciously accused by the journalist in the article published in the SMH. Have NEW felt it appropriate to issue a letter to their parents and carers to correct any misunderstanding that they may have as a result of that article?

One gets the feeling that some are sailing closer to the wind than the America's Cup skippers in San Francisco Bay.

 

[Quick Hands]

It seems that Mr Lambert has been upset by the article in the paper, so much so that he feels it necessary to write a second letter to his schools parents and carers.

Newington have also been maliciously accused by the journalist in the article published in the SMH. Have NEW felt it appropriate to issue a letter to their parents and carers to correct any misunderstanding that they may have as a result of that article?

One gets the feeling that some are sailing closer to the wind than the America's Cup skippers in San Francisco Bay.

Methinks Dr Lambert protesteth too much.

EDIT: I wonder what the parents of talented sportsmen, who have been recruited, think when the read these letters.

 

[Quick Hands]

Pandora's Box.

Glasshouses?

John 8:7.

The problem being, if everyone sits on their hands and says we are not without guilt, then nothing happens. What's actually required is admission of past fault, followed by genuine attempts to eradicate the practice as far as is possible.

Luke 15:7 (joy over sinners repenting)

 

[whatever]

Doesn't that prove that while Cheika and maybe the ARU see the schools as the game's nursery the schools recognise that that is not their role?

Yes, it certainly does. Schools are importing to win comps regardless, the ARU is running around with a blindfold on, with no idea of how to stop the rot in all levels of the game.

 

[Brian Westlake]

It's not all about the offering of scholarships, I know Joeys big issue about Scots is their approach to sport which I believe distinguishes them from Newington. Joeys have always been strongly opposed to professionalism in the GPS and I think this will be the basis of their argument regarding Scots. A lot of schools import for a range of sports other the Rugby, Newington in Water Polo, Kings in Athletics etc but whilst they do this they mostly steer clear of professionalism. What Scots do however is a deadset joke. Autograph sessions and player profiles which treat 16-17 year old boys like gods. The 5 schools involved are Shore, Grammar, Joeys, Kings and View and I believe they have a right to take action. I for one hope something is done before the infamous Scots 16As, who were this year booed by their peers which goes to show even some at Scots are opposed to this, reach 1st grade level and get treated like the gods they already think themselves to be.

Aaahhhh!!! Nothing like precursors to our next crop of JO'Cs.
It will be more than interesting as this unfolds. Scots 1st XI again comes to mind... World domination costs dearly

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Should the practice be eradicated?

It is killing junior village club rugby, and making it extremely difficult to keep rugby going in the State high school system.

Would those schools in breach of the agreed code maintain their investment in rugby coaching and development programmes and rugby specific staff if they were unable to recruit talented athletes?

Until ARU, and NSWRU, throw some more resources at the teenage talent development across the board, the AAGPS, CAS and ISA schools system is about all we have for the talented rugby players to get access to sustained "elite" development in preparation for Aust Schoolboys, U20's, Soup and ultimately the Wobs.

The revised Junior Gold Cup will go some of the way but with only 4 squads across Sydney, all of whom will be charged >$600 for the privilege, it looks as if ARU may have missed the boat, and will still believe that they can rely on the "Big Rugby Schools" to do a fair bit of their development for them.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

This is a rugby site and the comments on the weekend from Chieka et al regarding the dependence placed on private schools in rugby development are very concerning.

Spot on.

Grammar's decision as I understand it is to rigidly apply academic entrance criteria and then presumably apply its resources accordingly.

I dont want to hijack this thread (again) but there is a lot of rubbish spoken about the rigidity of grammar's academic selection. There is no doubt that they take academic pursuits seriously once boys are at the school but that is what you pay the bikkies for. It is not the hot house many assume. At all entry points interview plays a role and coached kids are supposedly weeded out.
I dont think that the difference between Grammar and the other schools is down to scholarships, by the way. Rugby was until recently been neglected for 30 years +.
For the record, my concerns with scholarships arises from the first quote: the base is too narrow and getting narrower.

 

[goalkicker65]

Kings athletics program will be exposed next and shore rowing program

I think you will find that no boys in the TKS Athletics Team 2013 who won the Senior Competition were a part of this 'Scholarship Scheme' for Athletics. Shall i go through the team and prove this to some of the more ignorant out there?

1. Jackson Kang- Year 7
2. Ruvin Baddevithana- Year 7
3. James Kane- Year 8
4. Sam Porter- Year 7
5. Tim Fratzia- Year 7
6. Maine Vidler- Year 9
7. Nick Andrews- Year 7
8. Callum Anderson- Year 7
9. Aaron Kang- Year 7
10. Charlie Allison- Went through the Prep School then returned in Year 11.
11. Josh Clarke- Year 7
12. James Ridge- Year 7
13. Josh Anstey- Year 7
14. Rowan Bray- Year 7
15. Jack Stapleton- Year 1 at Prep School until now.
16. Jackson Lee- Year 7
17. Harrison Andrews- Year 7
18. Tom Plummer- Year 7
19. Pode Bunchongphoklang- Year 7
20. Archie Hall- Year 9
21. Isaac Hall- Year 7
22. Keishav Muralietharan- Year 7
23. Max Brighton- Year 7
24. Braxton Jones- Year 7
25. Rob Black- Year 7
26. Ross O'Neill- Year 7

Please note, that the three leading Athletes in Year 12 (Josh Clarke, Jack Stapleton and Harry Andrews) all arrived in Year 7 and have dwelled in the program offered at King's. It is also great to note that the boys who did not turn up in Year 7 were not even as successful as the other boys who came in year 7, credit to the wonderful King's program lead by outstanding members of staff. This proves that you can't assume boys would prove victorious in the future in regards to Athletics if they are coming in Year 7, and that's why King's Athletics Program deserves great recognition.

 

[Buster]

Aaahhhh!!! Nothing like precursors to our next crop of JO'Cs.
It will be more than interesting as this unfolds. Scots 1st XI again comes to mind. World domination costs dearly

I dont see the arguement here. As i understand it, there were some talented boys "parachuted" in to the TSC team (made some calls to mates yesterday to track some info down), however they were beaten, and didnt win the comp, so hardly an arguement for world domination there (or a poor program).

With regards to the rugby program which one can only assume has caused the start of the drama here, of the TSC 1sts, the only boys who started late (year 9 onwards) WITHOUT a family member previously attending OR NOT a full fee paying student was a lock and the flyhalf, even then im not fully confirmed on their Full fee paying status, but they were the only two i couldnt confirm.

The rest of the team are all above board, TSC just got a damn good year, built around 9 of the U13a side (i saw the photo yesterday in the old boys magazine i kept in the cupboard)! SO the arguement is crap. Kings would have had the now barker boy there this year if he had been happy, and he was there with assistance, Joeys miraculously have gun state players appear weeks after playing in state sides in the U15,s has happened a few years in a row (conicidence is igrnoed here).

All the barb throwing is beyond a joke with this one, the head masters need to remove the index digit from their backsides, focus on their programs, or else call a meeting and disband the GPS, let the schools who are keen on focusing on sport focus on sport and develop a divisioned competition as has been metioned a million times on the various threads, and move on.

Empty threats are not worth the paper they are written on (or email space they absorb). Grammar and High have signalled their intentions that they cannot compete, yet a half baked comp stays around. I think the ARU should support a divisioned and teired system, similar to the UK model. The best goup and play at the top, those not keen on investing in a sports program (investing can be taken however you like it) go down and play a lower level of rugby that parents are happy with and the HM is keen on supporting.

Would anyone here openly deny a talented young fellow prevented from attending a GPS school due to financnes the opportunity that they afford. If parents continue to pay fees and those fees assist a disadvantaged person coming to the school, im all for it, and think everyone should ahve that opportunity. I think someone should provide the numbers on how many bursaries, assistances, anythig getting a kid in the door are in existence, and how many of those boys are in the 1sts for their school in any sport, i think you would be surprised!

 

[Buster]

And sorry Brian Westlake, that wasn't directed at you, it was just the cricket thing that sparked the rant!

 

[Muglair]

Rugby was until recently been neglected for 30 years +.

An additional amount of resource and some more recognition goes a long way and no doubt this is what the drafters of the rules had in mind. Taking at face value the commentary on Kings and the value of building sustainable structures from the ground up is demonstrated.

Short cuts do not ever seem to work in the longer run so perhaps we are seeing only a short term problem hopefully replaced by long term planning.

I do not have an answer and on reflection it really is unfair of me to place the burden on the schools to produce one. However it is unacceptable for them to sit on the sidelines and make it up on the run when the howls of protest become to loud.

Back to the usual villains; should the ARU et al be taking greater responsibility to assist the schools to come up with a system that is fair, promotes development and sportsmanship, acceptable to each school, and to their stakeholders?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Kings would have had the now barker boy there this year if he had been happy, and he was there with assistance,

WRONG.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Here's a thought for the day that has been covered somewhere else on these boards.

The Sydney based NGS (Manu's Koala Club according to some scribes) numbers about 40 kids. These are mostly year 11 and 12 boys, with the odd year 10 boy.

These boys undergo a "JGS on steroids" programme. Whereas JGS is one session per week for the Summer months, NGS runs all year around with 3 sessions per week during the summer and one session per week during the rugby season.

Nearly all the "Big Rugby Schools" have kids in the NGS, except for Joeys. Joeys absence is apparently due to problems with logistics for their boarders. This year the Scots boys who were selected into NGS in October 2012, suddenly withdrew in January 2013.

Do Scots have a programme better than that of the Park Rugby bodies High Performance Unit?

Takes some hard work to achieve World Domination. I know, I play Risk and it is bloody hard to take and hold Europe and Asia for the bonus armies this gives you.

 

[The Spectator]

I dont see the arguement here. As i understand it, there were some talented boys "parachuted" in to the TSC team (made some calls to mates yesterday to track some info down), however they were beaten, and didnt win the comp, so hardly an arguement for world domination there (or a poor program).

That is precisely the point. They also played against the other stacked team, Newington where 13 of 15 boys were also parachuted in. It is the parachuting in that gets everyones craw.

Joeys miraculously have gun state players appear weeks after playing in state sides in the U15,s has happened a few years in a row (conicidence is igrnoed here).

Given I have Joeys connections, who would this apply to? Sounds like hot air deflecting from the issue.

Would anyone here openly deny a talented young fellow prevented from attending a GPS school due to financnes the opportunity that they afford.

If that were the case, do it from Yr 7 where all the benefits of the school ethos can be absorbed. The other associations have very strong rugby programs namely CAS and ISA and are very well represented in rep sides so GPS doesn't have the edge maybe just the money.

 

[Buster]

WRONG.

My apologies if incorrect, was based on a passing comment from a person at Scots, assumed it likely to be correct given he started late and didnt last very long.

In any case the point wasnt to make a case against the boy, rather to make a case that could anyone from Kings, View, Joeys in all seriousness put their hand on the heart and swear that no student at their school played in a 1st team and was not receiving any assistance to be at the school from a financial perspective.

If anyone on this forum (or dare i say it within the school) is willing to stand there and make this claim, ill eat my tie!

Grammar, High and Shore i could cop, but the other three are dead set dreaming!

 

[Buster]

Dont know the name of the bloke, but i watched my cousin play in the U15 sydney side a few years back. he didnt make NSW but i thought id go watch anyway. The State captain (a flanker IIRC) magically then appeared at Joeys a few weeks later from way up north somewhere! I think he was in the 1s this year or last. Any explanation? And in all seriousness whether or not this particular case is correct or not, could you say it has not ever happened at Joeys in the past 5-10 years, EVER?

I seriously doubt it, and would challenege anyone to come forward and make the claim.

 

[The Spectator]

That is like saying a mate of a mate of a mate told me. Boarding costs a bomb load and people tend to send boys later i.e. from Yr 10. I can see how people get confused.

The bursary program is open to disadvantaged aboriginal boys from Yr 7. Some can play sport; some can't. View have something similar. I am sure the schools have a register. Some boys are on half fees due to financial circumstances but have been there from Yr 7.

 

[Buster]

That is like saying a mate of a mate of a mate told me. Boarding costs a bomb load and people tend to send boys later i.e. from Yr 10. I can see how people get confused.

The bursary program is open to disadvantaged aboriginal boys from Yr 7. Some can play sport; some can't. View have something similar. I am sure the schools have a register. Some boys are on half fees due to financial circumstances but have been there from Yr 7.

Not arguing with you for a minute on both points, and am all for both, boarders starting late and indigenous support, but dont believe that it should stop at indigenous support. I think the schools should be encouraged to have as many boys on bursaries as possible to give more boys the opportunity.

As long as that window right there is open, this problem will never go away. It is a pretty common occurence that boys getting assistance are also brilliant sportsmen, and that late starters from the bush are not to bad either. How do you stop it?

IMHO, you cap the number of boys starting after year 10 at 2. Would stop the big late parachute, and would also encourage the schools to invest at least 3 years in the boys development, which could only be more beneficial.

While we are at it, is it strange the lack of an islander program at any school (with the exception of Newington). I know alot have an indigenous program, but what would be the objections if say View were to start an islander assistance program? Would this cause a drama.

For the record, i would fully supprot something of this nature and think all schools should make avaialable a certain number of places to indigenous boys and islander boys to allow them the opportunity that these schools provide.