School sporting scholarships/recruitment

[Inside Shoulder]

All three boys mentioned in the SMH have been contracted to their NRL clubs for at least 3 years, maybe 4. So, it is not like league got under the guard of the ARU.

In other words, they were enrolled in their GPS schools with the full knowledge of the junior NRL contracts.

Doesn't that prove that while Cheika and maybe the ARU see the schools as the game's nursery the schools recognise that that is not their role?

 

[rugboy]

I th

All three boys mentioned in the SMH have been contracted to their NRL clubs for at least 3 years, maybe 4. So, it is not like league got under the guard of the ARU.

In other words, they were enrolled in their GPS schools with the full knowledge of the junior NRL contracts.

Given that league contracts are normally no more than 3-4 years in length, the concern could be that even though they were initially contracted to league clubs they would have since then re-signed despite being in elite rugby schools pathways and accessing representative teams all the way to Oz Schools. This would suggest that the ARU or whoever, had access to the boys and seemingly without competition they re-signed with league.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I th

Given that league contracts are normally no more than 3-4 years in length, the concern could be that even though they were initially contracted to league clubs they would have since then re-signed despite being in elite rugby schools pathways and accessing representative teams all the way to Oz Schools. This would suggest that the ARU or whoever, had access to the boys and seemingly without competition they re-signed with league.

To be fair to the ARU and Cheika: they can't realistically sign them because there is no under age comp to put them in at franchise level. They have signed to play in the <insert major automotive manufacturer> Cup, which as I understand it is U20.
Many (most?) blokes who play in this comp never see the light of day in the NRL.
All the ARU & Cheika can sign blokes to is open age provincial rugby. How can they know if these still boys will be able to foot it against fully developed, strengthened and conditioned 26 year olds?
This is a huge problem with the path from school to Super 15.
As for the schools they, quite properly IMHO, march to their own beat: it is no part of their mission to provide Wallabies and so they should do whatever they do irrespective of a boys intention with respect to football once he leaves school.
Australian Schools, I gather from what I have read on here, do not see themselves as a development team: this is understandable given the very very limited number of Oz Schools players who graduate to S15 and Wallabies.
As with most things wrong in the higher echelons of rugby at the moment it is a Pathway problem.

 

[Quick Hands]

To be fair to the ARU and Cheika: they can't realistically sign them because there is no under age comp to put them in at franchise level. They have signed to play in the <insert major automotive manufacturer> Cup, which as I understand it is U20.
Many (most?) blokes who play in this comp never see the light of day in the NRL.
All the ARU & Cheika can sign blokes to is open age provincial rugby. How can they know if these still boys will be able to foot it against fully developed, strengthened and conditioned 26 year olds?
This is a huge problem with the path from school to Super 15.
As for the schools they, quite properly IMHO, march to their own beat: it is no part of their mission to provide Wallabies and so they should do whatever they do irrespective of a boys intention with respect to football once he leaves school.
Australian Schools, I gather from what I have read on here, do not see themselves as a development team: this is understandable given the very very limited number of Oz Schools players who graduate to S15 and Wallabies.
As with most things wrong in the higher echelons of rugby at the moment it is a Pathway problem.

Correct on all points.
And I have this straight from a parent whose boys played elite schoolboy rugby and then went to league in u/20s on a not very big contract. The parent/boy didn't have a particular diehard stance towards either code, but they went with league because there was no elite program in rugby except open age provincial rugby. It wasn't so much the money but the level on the play that made the difference. If it was like against like, the boy probably would have gone with rugby. The mooted academy teams attached to each of the super rugby sides should go a way to addressing this issue, as might a genuine 3rd tier. The academy part is relatively straight forward to implement and could be done quickly. Viewers of any of the 3rd tier related threads would have noticed more roadmaps and factions than the middle east, I hope the ARU spend some time and effort on clearly annunciating what they want the 3rd tier to achieve and then strategically place teams for the long term benefit of the game.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Correct on all points.
And I have this straight from a parent whose boys played elite schoolboy rugby and then went to league in u/20s on a not very big contract. The parent/boy didn't have a particular diehard stance towards either code, but they went with league because there was no elite program in rugby except open age provincial rugby. It wasn't so much the money but the level on the play that made the difference. If it was like against like, the boy probably would have gone with rugby. The mooted academy teams attached to each of the super rugby sides should go a way to addressing this issue, as might a genuine 3rd tier. The academy part is relatively straight forward to implement and could be done quickly. Viewers of any of the 3rd tier related threads would have noticed more roadmaps and factions than the middle east, I hope the ARU spend some time and effort on clearly annunciating what they want the 3rd tier to achieve and then strategically place teams for the long term benefit of the game.

The problem with the acadamies and the 3rd tier is that they too will be open age.
Because of the different rates at which kids develop and, frankly, the different amount of strength & conditioning they will have done it is very difficult (as Toyota Cup proves) to pick which 19 year old will make the grade in open rugby.
So, unless you cap the ages in academies you will have a Jeremy Tilse playing against a rookie straight from school who has never played anything but u19 laws.
So that Lee doesnt jump on me for go off piste the relevance of this debate to this thread is that it heightens the irrelevance to life, even including an adult life of rugby, of schoolboy success.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

The ARU Pathway

 

[Inside Shoulder]

The ARU Pathway

Present plans include adding at least 1 roundabout

 

[Jaghond]

"Present plans include adding at least 1 roundabout..."

IS,

You forgot to add the "Pathway Calming Devices"...AKA Speed Humps.....AKA ...Clubs vs SJRU vs Schools vs Everyone else !

 

[Muglair]

Given that speculation and innuendo has swirled around this issue for decades it is a bit of a joke that some now decide to make a "stand".

I actually think it is objectionable to accept that it is OK for students to accept scholarships because they are gifted academically, artistically, musically etc but should be deprived of the opportunity because their only gift is sporting prowess or potential.

This first really came to public attention in 1993 (Scots Centenary) but has been raised numerous times by friends and acquaintances from a wide range of schools objecting to the usurping of home grown Y7-12 players for "imports".

I continue to think it is worthwhile that these athletes receive the same opportunities and if the AAGPS want to control the outcomes (which they should) then they need to get off their backsides and tackle the complexities. At the end of the day their task it is a lot easier than the issues of young players that confront the ARU.

 

[Brian Westlake]

There is a little shed at the back of Joeys where I remember that ...

No there isn't. Alcohol and school sports are a no no isn't it.

The little shed was never open during Cricket Season. Never did Joeys consume alcohol during 1st Xl play, and even then only when the game, not the day had finished would a beverage even look like being consumed.

 

[Brian Westlake]

Well if whatever school it is has high quality coaching in place your son will still pick up great rugby skills. As Scots have placed great emphasis on the coaching and mentoring programs this shouldn't affect them at all and they shouldn't lose any teams because they haven't recruited talented athletes. Or have they???

Rugby Mum???
GTPIH????
Rob Hart???

What is the word? You are in with the inner sanctum here?
What about the lad from the Central Coast who they want to turn into a Number 2?


Plus ça change, plus c' est la même chose.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I continue to think it is worthwhile that these athletes receive the same opportunities and if the AAGPS want to control the outcomes (which they should) then they need to get off their backsides and tackle the complexities. At the end of the day their task it is a lot easier than the issues of young players that confront the ARU.

What complexities do you mean?

 

[jon1234]

Scots hasn't done anything wrong. Period. This whole scenario will be over soon hopefully. All we can hope is that mainstream media doesn't pick it up because rest assured they'll pick the GPS a part in their pursuing of class warfare

 

[Muglair]

What complexities do you mean?

I thought I was avoiding that question!

No one wins by creating an unfair playing field. Boys at any school are not well served by being flogged each week. Nor are they necessarily well served by winning too easily.

The advantages of providing scholarships to athletes who otherwise would not have the opportunity presented are really wasted if one private school just recruits athletes developed at another private school. So what are the guidelines?

Should they be different if the boy is in Year 7 rather than Year 11?

Should students undertaking Year 12 over 2 years be allowed to compete in the second year. Clearly there is an advantage being older, but how do you distinguish against those who repeat Year 10 or Year 11?

How many scholarships?

What about Boosters? I don't really know what they are or what the context is but I saw the reference in a post above and in the book Blind Side. Since the University system in the States struggles with this I assume it is complex too.

I could go on and on ... but will wait for the call from the AAGPS to retain my services.

 

[Quick Hands]

The ARU Pathway

Which car is the Pulveriser driving?

 

[Quick Hands]

Scots hasn't done anything wrong. Period. This whole scenario will be over soon hopefully. All we can hope is that mainstream media doesn't pick it up because rest assured they'll pick the GPS a part in their pursuing of class warfare

Well 5 other GPS Headmasters seem to think otherwise. You'd think that they wouldn't have taken the step that they have unless they were reasonably sure of themselves. It's quite a big call for them to write to Dr Lambert, so one would assume that they had at least discussed it previously and saw that they were getting nowhere. I'd be surprised if their first response was to write letters without any discussion with TSC first.

They also tend to carry significantly more weight than us anonymous internet posters. We'll all just see what happens.

 

[Quick Hands]

I. So what are the guidelines?

There already are guidelines.

The trend towards professionalism in school sport is to be viewed with caution. Where such an approach involves sound coaching techniques and is aimed at producing a satisfying and improved level of performance, this approach can be beneficial. However, care should be taken to exclude from our schools practices which place the pursuit of victory above those aspects of sport concerned with enjoyment, balanced development and good sportsmanship.
Preamble to AAGPS Code of Practice.

3. In the light of these principles, the GPS Headmasters affirm the following code of practice:

a. No inducements such as sporting scholarships, whether direct, disguised, or at arm's length, shall be offered by any member school. Financial assistance to talented sportsmen shall not form part of the enrolment strategy of any member school.

b. We affirm that the Headmaster of each school is responsible for knowing the special circumstances relating to the admission of boys to his school.
AAGPS Code of Practice

 

[Spieber]

Which car is the Pulveriser driving?

The Corolla stuck between the two semi-trailers.

 

[Rob hart]

Rugby Mum???
GTPIH????
Rob Hart???

What is the word? You are in with the inner sanctum here?
What about the lad from the Central Coast who they want to turn into a Number 2?
Hi BW - I understand that an independent auditor will be looking at all admissions at TSC early next week across all sports and will report to the AAGPS meeting next Thursday correspondence suggests that the school has nothing to hide .......... we will see what the outcome is ......... Please don't bombard me with counter thoughts i am only repeating what i have been told........



Plus ça change, plus c' est la même chose.

 

[Buster]

Well 5 other GPS Headmasters seem to think otherwise. You'd think that they wouldn't have taken the step that they have unless they were reasonably sure of themselves. It's quite a big call for them to write to Dr Lambert, so one would assume that they had at least discussed it previously and saw that they were getting nowhere. I'd be surprised if their first response was to write letters without any discussion with TSC first.

They also tend to carry significantly more weight than us anonymous internet posters. We'll all just see what happens.

QS it is beyond a joke that the other schools are "taking a stand" when kids at every school this year have been there on some form of assistance, and some have magically also been talented at sport. No one has complained that grammar marks are so high and they "win" the academics each year off the back of heavily selective entries.

Every GPS school this year had a student play I. Their 1st XV who didn't stat in year seven, and was on some form of assistance, so what right does any headmaster have to cast the first stone? It is a piss poor display in my book and if newington, kings, joeys or river view are one 5 schools it's down right hypocritical!

No school sports team has been so heavily influenced by busary support then this years new 1st XV, yet everyone had no issue playing against them and no stupid letters were getting thrown around. Is whole thing screams of a grumpy headmaster trying to justify his salary to the parents whose boys missed out on a 1st guernsey. Down right poor by them all.