School sporting scholarships/recruitment

[Inside Shoulder]

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Fairly good summary of the main points of the case in support of the boycott.

Yet to see a rational and objective argument against the boycott.

"But if they choose this path, they must find appropriate competitions in which to participate."

Is this code for Scots will be expelled from AAGPS games?

 

[scaraby]

Fairly good summary of the main points of the case in support of the boycott.

Yet to see a rational and objective argument against the boycott.

"But if they choose this path, they must find appropriate competitions in which to participate."

Is this code for Scots will be expelled from AAGPS games?

Selective discipline of 1 guilty party by other guilty parties to hide their own guilt is gutless and if it happened at your holier than though schools then the persons involved would be ruled upon by a higher body and be in more trouble than the mate they were throwing to the wolves.
There is no rational argument at all on this forum.
A few on this forum have vendettas against their ex enemies from school days(must have had a hard time) or ex employees(understandable but not balanced).
You are creating havoc and are deliberating goading the parents and supporters of Scots ....why I don't know.
Some of the so called Scots supporters are equally as bad and I can only presume it is anger or deliberate trolling to stir up this mess.
Mods ...too many Frank Rows around and also the same people posting under various "disguises"
Take a leaf out of GPSRow...and show some maturity.....I'm off to talk rugby somewhere......... I tried

 

[Paddogreen]

What a outstanding piece of hypocrisy. 2 main issues
a. He was headmaster when Grammar won a head of the river with a boat that will do well in the America's cup, and boys repeating to row, etc. How does this play out under his 'amateur schoolboy opponents of a similar standard' ?
b. TKS headmaster has already admitted that they do sports scholarships in mainstream press. So where is this line - 2, 3 a whole team or non-fee paying or after year 10. Nothing is written down, what a mess.

Well balanced...SGS has been a serial under performer (except for the HOTR above) for close to 50 years, leading to very non-balanced contests. Seriously just a parental justification for a poor thought out action.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

What a outstanding piece of hypocrisy. 2 main issues
a. He was headmaster when Grammar won a head of the river with a boat that will do well in the America's cup, and boys repeating to row, etc. How does this play out under his 'amateur schoolboy opponents of a similar standard' ?
b. TKS headmaster has already admitted that they do sports scholarships in mainstream press. So where is this line - 2, 3 a whole team or non-fee paying or after year 10. Nothing is written down, what a mess.

Well balanced.SGS has been a serial under performer (except for the HOTR above) for close to 50 years, leading to very non-balanced contests. Seriously just a parental justification for a poor thought out action.

What a load of rubbish.
SJC, SIC and TSC have been serial under performers in rowing for 40 years near enough.
You are completely wrong about the HOTR of 2010 for reasons that have been covered at length, are uncontradicted and which you ignore because it doesn't suit your argument.
I think that Vallance has hit the nail on the head.
It may turn out that the GPS schools other than Grammar are prepared to provide TSC with the comp they seek but my reading is the Grammar will not, whatever the consequences.
I am more than happy with that.

 

[cyclopath]

What a outstanding piece of hypocrisy. 2 main issues
a. He was headmaster when Grammar won a head of the river with a boat that will do well in the America's cup, and boys repeating to row, etc. How does this play out under his 'amateur schoolboy opponents of a similar standard' ?
b. TKS headmaster has already admitted that they do sports scholarships in mainstream press. So where is this line - 2, 3 a whole team or non-fee paying or after year 10. Nothing is written down, what a mess.

Well balanced.SGS has been a serial under performer (except for the HOTR above) for close to 50 years, leading to very non-balanced contests. Seriously just a parental justification for a poor thought out action.

Apart from what @Inside Shoulder said, you really need to look at the breadth of GPS sports, not just rugby, before making stupid statements. Rugby is not the GPS yardstick.
Of course you could always look at what the participants at any school derive from their participation, which is really the most important, but hard to measure, benchmark.

 

[GPS Observer]

The Grammar Headmaster suggests Scots find an appropriate competition to participate in. I hope they do and that New follow them into it as well.
If that were to happen, with no disrespect, I think some of the others would have a dilemma..... I imagine one or two would not want to play in a second best Rugby competition.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I think AAGPS will survive regardless of what Scots do. As ILTW says they all have a huge economic vested interest in mainting the brand.

The actions of the gang of 5 have shown that they are prepared to excise one of their own to save the group as a whole.

Can AAGPS survive without Scots? Yes.

Can Scots survive without AAGPS? Yes but the Scots brand will be severely discounted and over time they would become just another private school with no more standing or relevance than the likes of Redham, St Spyridons, St Pauls Manly, Oxley, Northholm Grammar, Hills Grammar etc.

Will any other School Sporting Association welcome an AAGPS reject?
Can't see CAS or ISA embracing Scots if they were ejected from AAGPS.

Perhaps we will see the formation of SASSC - Sporting Association of Sydney Scots' Colleges. Lambert's boys would then be guaranteed World Domination of the SASSC competitions in all divisions of all age groups and all sports. Job Done.

Dr Vallance may read G&GR.

Not sure that Newington would want to join the SASSC.

 

[Quick Hands]

Fairly good summary of the main points of the case in support of the boycott.

Yet to see a rational and objective argument against the boycott.

"But if they choose this path, they must find appropriate competitions in which to participate."

Is this code for Scots will be expelled from AAGPS games?

Maybe it's the message that the others are trying to send.

I don't think they can be expelled, the others just refuse to play them.

Winning is no fun alone.

 

[Quick Hands]

The Grammar Headmaster suggests Scots find an appropriate competition to participate in. I hope they do and that New follow them into it as well.
If that were to happen, with no disrespect, I think some of the others would have a dilemma... I imagine one or two would not want to play in a second best Rugby competition.

I wouldn't be too sure that Newington are following the Scots pathway. Sure they have had a rugby team that was largely recruited in 2012/13 to win the competition in its 150th anniversary. (not condoned) There's also an indication that their Head went to the others beforehand and said that the year group was 50 short on numbers and he seems to have received some sort of dispensation to offer bursaries/scholarships to fill that number. But, their results in AAGPS sport overall aren't that flash.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

The Grammar Headmaster suggests Scots find an appropriate competition to participate in. I hope they do and that New follow them into it as well.
If that were to happen, with no disrespect, I think some of the others would have a dilemma... I imagine one or two would not want to play in a second best Rugby competition.

Yeah, but they have some real estate on the Parramatta River and a few debaters who might want to stay in that comp.
Dont forget: the supposed kudos of winning GPS titles is what has driven this.

 

[scaraby]

I wouldn't be too sure that Newington are following the Scots pathway. Sure they have had a rugby team that was largely recruited in 2012/13 to win the competition in its 150th anniversary. (not condoned) There's also an indication that their Head went to the others beforehand and said that the year group was 50 short on numbers and he seems to have received some sort of dispensation to offer bursaries/scholarships to fill that number. But, their results in AAGPS sport overall aren't that flash.

really?..swimming ,water polo should i keep going...or should we just stay on Scots

 

[Paddogreen]

Apart from what @Inside Shoulder said, you really need to look at the breadth of GPS sports, not just rugby, before making stupid statements. Rugby is not the GPS yardstick.
Of course you could always look at what the participants at any school derive from their participation, which is really the most important, but hard to measure, benchmark.

I was looking at the breadth of sports. SGS is perceived as easy-beats across all sports. Even SHS who is much maligned in sport has won more GPS competitions then SGS in the last 10 years. Thanks to their basketball, rifle shooting and volleyball programmes.
Look to Rugby. This year they played a year 9 boy in the First XV overlooking roughly 540 boys to throw in a 14/15 year old against 17/18 year olds. Lucky it was third grade.

 

[Paddogreen]

What a load of rubbish.
SJC, SIC and TSC have been serial under performers in rowing for 40 years near enough.
You are completely wrong about the HOTR of 2010 for reasons that have been covered at length, are uncontradicted and which you ignore because it doesn't suit your argument.
I think that Vallance has hit the nail on the head.
It may turn out that the GPS schools other than Grammar are prepared to provide TSC with the comp they seek but my reading is the Grammar will not, whatever the consequences.
I am more than happy with that.

Rubbish heh... Good, as you have a position then you'll have no problem providing true or false answers to the following:

1. Did the school/old boys invest in a new boat at this time?
2. Was any first VIII crew member on a reduced fees, for whatever reason?
3. Did any crew member repeat or was on a extended time other than the standard 6 years?
4. Did the old boys provide funding over and above prior years and out of sync with other sports?

If the answer to any or all of these questions is true, then Dr V is a hypocrite. BTW I tend not ask questions I don't know the answer to.

Which takes me to my second point. Each school has 'cheated', the debate seems by our much, and it would seem everyone has a different line in the sand. But hanging one school out to dry...

Please don't bore me with but its not us. I have a similar story for each of the other 7 Sydney AAGPS schools. Yes some are less 'dirty' but you have all cheated.

 

[cyclopath]

I was looking at the breadth of sports. SGS is perceived as easy-beats across all sports. Even SHS who is much maligned in sport has won more GPS competitions then SGS in the last 10 years. Thanks to their basketball, rifle shooting and volleyball programmes.
Look to Rugby. This year they played a year 9 boy in the First XV overlooking roughly 540 boys to throw in a 14/15 year old against 17/18 year olds. Lucky it was third grade.

So it's the "vibe", according to you, and suddenly 50 years becomes 10?
And you ignore the main premise of my post. It's not about winning fucking competitions any-which way you can, it's about the boys participating, enjoying and developing physical skills.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Let us move into the hypothetical space.

<snip>

Do you think Schools should offer inducements to talented athletes?

Do you believe that Principals should act in breach of a Gentleman's agreement between likeminded Principals about how games between schools should be conducted?

If one or more Schools have actively breached the Gentleman's agreement about how games between schools should be conducted, do you believe that the other Principals should just HTFU and do nothing?

Nobody wants to answer my questions.

Everybody just seems to want to support "their school" and attack "the others" for hypocrisy.

 

[I like to watch]

Rubbish heh. Good, as you have a position then you'll have no problem providing true or false answers to the following:

1. Did the school/old boys invest in a new boat at this time?
2. Was any first VIII crew member on a reduced fees, for whatever reason?
3. Did any crew member repeat or was on a extended time other than the standard 6 years?
4. Did the old boys provide funding over and above prior years and out of sync with other sports?

If the answer to any or all of these questions is true, then Dr V is a hypocrite. BTW I tend not ask questions I don't know the answer to.

Which takes me to my second point. Each school has 'cheated', the debate seems by our much, and it would seem everyone has a different line in the sand. But hanging one school out to dry.

Please don't bore me with but its not us. I have a similar story for each of the other 7 Sydney AAGPS schools. Yes some are less 'dirty' but you have all cheated.

If the answer is, that only the puny kid at the end of the boat was paying full fees,then you are approaching what Scots have done with their basketball program,and what Newington did with Rugby.
You can't see the difference with the odd kid here or there,with literally having a squad full of imports with no home grown kids at all?
New, with their Rugby program were as guilty,why do you think they were not boycotted?

 

[scaraby]

Nobody wants to answer my questions.

Everybody just seems to want to support "their school" and attack "the others" for hypocrisy.

OK fair call
1. No i think they should help talented kids who have worked their butts off get a start...be it academic,music,sport don't care as long as the Kid is genuinely going to brace the opportunity given do it with grace,humility and a desire to improve ALL ROUND. You may be surprised how all round these kids are..hint .....think music/basketball pair ,rugby /academia/music.
So what we think is a "sports scholarship"may not be at all. Talented kids are often talented at most things...its genetic...
Focus should be on whwther they can afford it or whether they just don't have access to improve themselves due to distance etc.

Gentlemen agreements between schools and/or principals seem to be a bit like alliances on "Survivor".......ie as long as it suits my purposes.

In the world communism is supposed to be the ideal life for all as well.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Rubbish heh. Good, as you have a position then you'll have no problem providing true or false answers to the following:

1. Did the school/old boys invest in a new boat at this time?
2. Was any first VIII crew member on a reduced fees, for whatever reason?
3. Did any crew member repeat or was on a extended time other than the standard 6 years?
4. Did the old boys provide funding over and above prior years and out of sync with other sports?

If the answer to any or all of these questions is true, then Dr V is a hypocrite. BTW I tend not ask questions I don't know the answer to.

Which takes me to my second point. Each school has 'cheated', the debate seems by our much, and it would seem everyone has a different line in the sand. But hanging one school out to dry.

Please don't bore me with but its not us. I have a similar story for each of the other 7 Sydney AAGPS schools. Yes some are less 'dirty' but you have all cheated.

Sure did - 2nd hand from RA. Under $10k I was told - $8k rings a bell. No to all other questions.

 

[fpiglet]

Rubbish heh. Good, as you have a position then you'll have no problem providing true or false answers to the following:

1. Did the school/old boys invest in a new boat at this time?
2. Was any first VIII crew member on a reduced fees, for whatever reason?
3. Did any crew member repeat or was on a extended time other than the standard 6 years?
4. Did the old boys provide funding over and above prior years and out of sync with other sports?

1. So what? Most schools update their eights or fours every three years or so.... they then get filtered down the ranks and everybody rowing gets to benefit from good quality equipment.

2. What difference does that make? With Grammar being quite academically minded I wouldn't be surprised if someone was on an academic scholarship of some sort. Smart people can be good sportsmen or women too.... Why can't they row?

3. Dunno. But if you repeat these days you're nuts.... picking up Year 12 again in Term 2 would be a pain and then having to go through all the sculling trials, seat racing, ergs.... No guarantee you'd settle in.

4. So what? If someone or group wants to make a donation to their favoured sport then good luck to them. What funding do you need for rugby.... a few corner posts, balls, plastic drink containers and the all important container carrier? I think with rowing most ex rowers understand it's a capital intensive sport and they try and contribute to the costs to alleviate the whining of the other sporting parents.