BeastieBoy
Herbert Moran (7)
They have not told us but if you assume Newington is not amongst them it's then just about everyone.
School sporting scholarships/recruitment
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BeastieBoy
Herbert Moran (7)
OK so let's assume scholarships are now out at Scots and Newington and you want to send your son to a Rugby school where he can pick up great rugby skills and habits and be noticed. Where do you go. Do we send him off boarding at Joeys? Is it back to that. Will Scots now have a change of tack and finally let AFL into the school? How many rugby teams will Scots lose as a consequence?
Where do you go? Other Schools Associations or SJRU Village Clubs.
How many teams will Scots lose? There are plenty of Flat Earth Society members who have been claiming that Scots have an organic programme. Clearly being so clean and organic, they will not lose any of their talented boys.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
Thats why I asked: my source (of unknown reliability) said Newington were in the boycott.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
Ummmm - that's not what school rugby is for.
The world is changing.
Knox used to be dominant - I gather they aim to be again given what they are, so I am told, prepared to pay Matt Williams and given that, so I am told, summer sport is a no-no if you want to make the KGS 1s or 2s in 2014.
The marketing seems to have convinced Georgina Robinson:
At the risk of having growden expose my identity I would point out that these 2 "renowned" rugby schools Have won 16 premierships between them (New 10; Scots 6) and Grammar has won 14. (I only choose Grammar because it is not, on any presently held view, a "rugby school" in the sense Ms Robinson uses that term).
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AAGPS_(NSW)_Rugby
sarcophilus
Charlie Fox (21)
I really struggle to understand this post
It sounds more an argument by a petulant 14yo than a complete thought
these schools only have rugby programs because they are allowed some form of enticement for good players?
so full fee paying families pay to set up programs and facilities for discounted students. When the discounted students, playing a level of football children of fee paying parents aren't allowed to (because they are paying someone else play it for them) aren't there, the facilities will be withdrawn?
I love it!!!!
Since the news of the basketball boycott is common knowledge, I think that The Scots College has a right of reply and it's fair enough to express their views and what they are doing about the accusations.
Here is a message from the headmaster to parents and carers supplied by someone sympathetic to Scots. I think it is in the best interests of the school that it appear here.
*******************************
Friday 20 September 2013
Dear Parents and Carers
I apologise for having to formally write to you at the end of a wonderful term. However, you may be aware that there has been a considerable amount of rumour surrounding the awarding of sporting scholarships or other forms of inducement in recent months. Recently, five GPS schools have written to me as Principal of The Scots College, notifying me of their decision not to field 1st or 2nd teams for Basketball games against The Scots College in the coming 2013/14 season.
What I understand to be the basis of the decision recorded in those letters is a suggestion that The Scots College has breached the GPS Code of Practice by offering inducements to attract outstanding sportsmen to play in our 1st and 2nd Basketball teams. I also understand at least some of the letters to mean that the Heads believe that the alleged breaches extend to other sporting teams.
I can assure you that our College Leadership Team, which is ultimately responsible for the Admissions process within the College, is confident that The Scots College has complied with the spirit and the letter of the GPS Code of Practice.
It is true that our College has enjoyed a wonderful year of success in the Senior School, winning GPS premierships in Basketball, Shooting, Cross Country and Rugby. It is also true that our win-loss ratio across all age groups, teams and all sports has significantly improved in recent years. At The Scots College, we have intentionally embarked on a strategy that promotes excellence in our sporting endeavours to match the excellence that exists in other parts of College life.
In recent years, we have developed cutting edge coaching and training practices designed to ensure duty of care in all sports, improve general health and well being, and compensate for our limited access to sporting fields. In conjunction with Sydney University research students and other peak sporting research agencies, we have aligned our Science and PDHPE programs with the latest research into student sleep patterns, diet, sporting technologies and data analysis, and correlations between physical exercise and academic performance.
Our quest for excellence, both in the classroom and beyond the classroom, always remains at the heart of our educational mission and practice. Sport is only one dimension of our holistic educational philosophy and we are working hard to ensure that every boy, regardless of sporting ability or aspiration, will learn to value the importance of a healthy body, generous spirit and curious mind. Our newly opened Forbes Carlile High Performance Centre provides all boys with wonderful access to research in the sphere of physiology, data collection and analysis and evidence-based planning. Distinguished Old Boy, Forbes Carlile, is acknowledged as a leader in this field within Australia and across the world.
Since receiving the letters last week, I have been working tirelessly to seek clarification. I have invited the schools concerned to present specific examples for investigation, and to establish an objective and independent process to facilitate transparency in an attempt to address the schools’ concerns as detailed in their respective letters. To date, I have not been able to achieve such an outcome.
I recognise that the end of term is a busy period for all schools and I am pleased to report that some schools have agreed to meet me next week. The Scots College remains committed to preserving the integrity and traditions of the GPS competition and will reiterate our commitment to ensuring that we maintain ethical standards and practices consistent with our Christian foundation and values.
On behalf of The Scots College, I continue to offer total transparency of College records to independent investigators and/or panels of GPS Heads or their representatives, along with access to College staff to answer any questions the respective schools may have.
Today, along with the support of the Chairman of the College Council, I have engaged an independent consultant from Melbourne. He will investigate all educational and sporting programs and practices, the entry points of all senior sporting team members, admissions and appropriate financial analysis documentation, and any areas deemed necessary to ensure that there are no areas of concern at The Scots College in relation to this issue.
That process will take place over three days next week, beginning on Tuesday. The investigator will have full access to staff and records relevant to this issue. I will ensure that full privacy is maintained in relation to individual or family circumstances. A report will be sent to the Standing Committee of GPS Heads on Thursday for review. An extraordinary meeting of Heads is scheduled for 15 October 2013.
Our first competition round against Sydney Boys’ High School will take place as normal for all teams on Saturday 12 October 2013
. It is my hope that all games following that date will continue as previously scheduled.
Having personally attended two GPS schools in two states (Newington College and The Southport School), and with my own father being an Old Boy of The Scots College (1944-48), I remain deeply committed to the GPS competition, the unity in diversity of the member schools within our coalition, and the need for integrity and transparency in relation to upholding the GPS Code of Conduct for all our schools. I believe the AAGPS (Athletic Association of the Great Public Schools of NSW), established in 1893, is one of the most valuable, longstanding and distinctive sporting programs in Australia and something the respective boys from all our schools highly value.
I have every confidence that the processes put in place by our College will serve to resolve any perceived concerns and will lead to some very positive outcomes for future generations of boys.
I ask that all members of our community remain committed to allowing this situation to be properly managed and resolved in the appropriate forums provided within the GPS structure. Please direct any questions or concerns to the Office of the Principal and not any other sources.
Thank you for your support. I will continue to keep our community informed about any developments in the coming weeks. I trust you enjoy a safe and relaxing spring vacation with your boys and families.
Scots to the fore!
Dr Ian PM Lambert
Principal
*********************************
The bolding above is mine.
Please do not quote this post in full. If you want to quote just snip most of it out leaving in the bit you want to talk about.
.
Here is a message from the headmaster to parents and carers supplied by someone sympathetic to Scots. I think it is in the best interests of the school that it appear here.
*******************************
Friday 20 September 2013
Dear Parents and Carers
I apologise for having to formally write to you at the end of a wonderful term. However, you may be aware that there has been a considerable amount of rumour surrounding the awarding of sporting scholarships or other forms of inducement in recent months. Recently, five GPS schools have written to me as Principal of The Scots College, notifying me of their decision not to field 1st or 2nd teams for Basketball games against The Scots College in the coming 2013/14 season.
What I understand to be the basis of the decision recorded in those letters is a suggestion that The Scots College has breached the GPS Code of Practice by offering inducements to attract outstanding sportsmen to play in our 1st and 2nd Basketball teams. I also understand at least some of the letters to mean that the Heads believe that the alleged breaches extend to other sporting teams.
I can assure you that our College Leadership Team, which is ultimately responsible for the Admissions process within the College, is confident that The Scots College has complied with the spirit and the letter of the GPS Code of Practice.
It is true that our College has enjoyed a wonderful year of success in the Senior School, winning GPS premierships in Basketball, Shooting, Cross Country and Rugby. It is also true that our win-loss ratio across all age groups, teams and all sports has significantly improved in recent years. At The Scots College, we have intentionally embarked on a strategy that promotes excellence in our sporting endeavours to match the excellence that exists in other parts of College life.
In recent years, we have developed cutting edge coaching and training practices designed to ensure duty of care in all sports, improve general health and well being, and compensate for our limited access to sporting fields. In conjunction with Sydney University research students and other peak sporting research agencies, we have aligned our Science and PDHPE programs with the latest research into student sleep patterns, diet, sporting technologies and data analysis, and correlations between physical exercise and academic performance.
Our quest for excellence, both in the classroom and beyond the classroom, always remains at the heart of our educational mission and practice. Sport is only one dimension of our holistic educational philosophy and we are working hard to ensure that every boy, regardless of sporting ability or aspiration, will learn to value the importance of a healthy body, generous spirit and curious mind. Our newly opened Forbes Carlile High Performance Centre provides all boys with wonderful access to research in the sphere of physiology, data collection and analysis and evidence-based planning. Distinguished Old Boy, Forbes Carlile, is acknowledged as a leader in this field within Australia and across the world.
Since receiving the letters last week, I have been working tirelessly to seek clarification. I have invited the schools concerned to present specific examples for investigation, and to establish an objective and independent process to facilitate transparency in an attempt to address the schools’ concerns as detailed in their respective letters. To date, I have not been able to achieve such an outcome.
I recognise that the end of term is a busy period for all schools and I am pleased to report that some schools have agreed to meet me next week. The Scots College remains committed to preserving the integrity and traditions of the GPS competition and will reiterate our commitment to ensuring that we maintain ethical standards and practices consistent with our Christian foundation and values.
On behalf of The Scots College, I continue to offer total transparency of College records to independent investigators and/or panels of GPS Heads or their representatives, along with access to College staff to answer any questions the respective schools may have.
Today, along with the support of the Chairman of the College Council, I have engaged an independent consultant from Melbourne. He will investigate all educational and sporting programs and practices, the entry points of all senior sporting team members, admissions and appropriate financial analysis documentation, and any areas deemed necessary to ensure that there are no areas of concern at The Scots College in relation to this issue.
That process will take place over three days next week, beginning on Tuesday. The investigator will have full access to staff and records relevant to this issue. I will ensure that full privacy is maintained in relation to individual or family circumstances. A report will be sent to the Standing Committee of GPS Heads on Thursday for review. An extraordinary meeting of Heads is scheduled for 15 October 2013.
Our first competition round against Sydney Boys’ High School will take place as normal for all teams on Saturday 12 October 2013
. It is my hope that all games following that date will continue as previously scheduled.
Having personally attended two GPS schools in two states (Newington College and The Southport School), and with my own father being an Old Boy of The Scots College (1944-48), I remain deeply committed to the GPS competition, the unity in diversity of the member schools within our coalition, and the need for integrity and transparency in relation to upholding the GPS Code of Conduct for all our schools. I believe the AAGPS (Athletic Association of the Great Public Schools of NSW), established in 1893, is one of the most valuable, longstanding and distinctive sporting programs in Australia and something the respective boys from all our schools highly value.
I have every confidence that the processes put in place by our College will serve to resolve any perceived concerns and will lead to some very positive outcomes for future generations of boys.
I ask that all members of our community remain committed to allowing this situation to be properly managed and resolved in the appropriate forums provided within the GPS structure. Please direct any questions or concerns to the Office of the Principal and not any other sources.
Thank you for your support. I will continue to keep our community informed about any developments in the coming weeks. I trust you enjoy a safe and relaxing spring vacation with your boys and families.
Scots to the fore!
Dr Ian PM Lambert
Principal
*********************************
The bolding above is mine.
Please do not quote this post in full. If you want to quote just snip most of it out leaving in the bit you want to talk about.
.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
It would seem that SBHS were not one of the 5 schools:
The Spectator
Herbert Moran (7)
The old independent review trick. The school will use this to "prove" no-one is on a sports scholarship, all those talented athletes have just had their fees paid by anonymous sources. Technically is that a scholarship?
Why did it take the GPS schools so long to act particularly after the footy season or were there too many vested interests.
Why did it take the GPS schools so long to act particularly after the footy season or were there too many vested interests.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
I think this has been quietly building for a while and it's probably taken the other Heads some time and contemplation to reach this point. It's also probably easier to galvanise schools to pull out of the basketball competition rather than the rugby.
What Scots seem to have been doing over the past few years is to employ directors of individual sports who are also involved in elite and/or representative coaching outside of the school systems and then recruit boys from those sports to the school. Whether it's a scholarship/bursary or not, the GPS code still prohibits enrolment policies which target talented sportsmen.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
Well if whatever school it is has high quality coaching in place your son will still pick up great rugby skills. As Scots have placed great emphasis on the coaching and mentoring programs this shouldn't affect them at all and they shouldn't lose any teams because they haven't recruited talented athletes. Or have they???
sarcophilus
Charlie Fox (21)
The truth is a rear and precious thing, and should be used very sparingly
guns for hire consultants have learnt this early and have developed quite lucrative careers using weasel words and half truths
If scotttttts throw me the money I would be happy to find an independent consultant for them
If scotttttts throw me the money I would be happy to find an independent consultant for them
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
I wouldn't assume that Newington were in or out. I think it's widely acknowledged that they have recruited rugby players over the past couple of years. Prior to that, I would have considered them on the same side of the argument as Shore, Grammar and High. It seems to me that this was largely directed at their 150th anniversary celebrations (which doesn't in anyway excuse it). Admittedly this leaves them on rather shaky ground in the scholarships debate though.Thats why I asked: my source (of unknown reliability) said Newington were in the boycott.
In short, theirs seems to have been a rather random, one-off approach, aimed at sesqi-centenary glory rather than world domination. Using the information contained on Scots own website, they seem to have embarked on a much more sustained and institutionalised process which lies somewhere between a State Sports High and a mini Institute of Sport. I think that fact that 5 Headmasters have taken the extraordinary step of writing to Dr Lambert shows the depth of feeling. Maybe the others have had a quiet work to the Head of Newington and he acknowledge the problem and gave undertakings (this is speculation on my part), whereas Dr Lambert appears to have dug in, particularly in light of this paragraph:
I can assure you that our College Leadership Team, which is ultimately responsible for the Admissions process within the College, is confident that The Scots College has complied with the spirit and the letter of the GPS Code of Practice.
I like to watch
David Codey (61)
He has to say this now.Anything less than total denial, places his position in serious jeopardy, I would have thought.
If the 5 Schools had the moxy to take up the good Dr's invitation,to " look at the books" it would definitely put an end to any GPS Schools fudging with Scholarships for the foreseeable future.
Buster
Chris McKivat (8)
Geez this is an interesting development. With the exception of possibly high given its state high school status, if one gos school can stand up and claim it has never at any time offered a sports incentive scholarship, I would think this kind of action is highly hipocritical.
Seriously poor form from all of the schools to bring this kind of action out after the season we have just seen. Total denial by the scots principal is his only real position however I wold say it is a dangerous one, but I think what needs to be remembered here is that if any school at any time has breached the code of conduct it gets a bit steep to go pulling this kind of action on anyone!
Rant over
Seriously poor form from all of the schools to bring this kind of action out after the season we have just seen. Total denial by the scots principal is his only real position however I wold say it is a dangerous one, but I think what needs to be remembered here is that if any school at any time has breached the code of conduct it gets a bit steep to go pulling this kind of action on anyone!
Rant over
Bowside
Peter Johnson (47)
I think this is a reasonably fair reaction to this problem.
Scholarships haven't ruined QLD GPS sport, but they have definitely taken something away from it. The whole school doesn't seem to get involved in supporting the first teams like they did in the past. I think the contest has definitely lost a bit of it's 'legitimacy'.
A few years ago a clique of QLD gps schools nearly got up a majority to put an end to importing, but they never went through with it and all the schools involved have since joined the arms race.
Better to stand up to it otherwise there is a slippery slope towards professionalism, which isn't the point of schoolboy sport.
Scholarships haven't ruined QLD GPS sport, but they have definitely taken something away from it. The whole school doesn't seem to get involved in supporting the first teams like they did in the past. I think the contest has definitely lost a bit of it's 'legitimacy'.
A few years ago a clique of QLD gps schools nearly got up a majority to put an end to importing, but they never went through with it and all the schools involved have since joined the arms race.
Better to stand up to it otherwise there is a slippery slope towards professionalism, which isn't the point of schoolboy sport.
CatchnPass
Vay Wilson (31)
Long time lurker first post - hopefully this will be a watershed moment in the arms race and we will see a resumption of the esprit de corps of school boy sport sans the dial a title brigade.
IS, agree that restricting summer sports is far from ideal but, as far as I am aware, Knox has not been implicated in the aforementioned dialling. Paying for top level coaching may not be what we all fondly recall from our own glory days, but if it's exclusively farming the organic crop, I don't have too much of an issue.
IS, agree that restricting summer sports is far from ideal but, as far as I am aware, Knox has not been implicated in the aforementioned dialling. Paying for top level coaching may not be what we all fondly recall from our own glory days, but if it's exclusively farming the organic crop, I don't have too much of an issue.
whatever
Darby Loudon (17)
All three boys mentioned in the SMH have been contracted to their NRL clubs for at least 3 years, maybe 4. So, it is not like league got under the guard of the ARU.
In other words, they were enrolled in their GPS schools with the full knowledge of the junior NRL contracts.
- Status