Scrum Talk

[Inside Shoulder]

That can be broadcast


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[JJJ]

What's going on with Robinson? Unfit, injury, found out, insufficient workrate, poor lineout lifting, still unhappy about being passed over for (vice)captaincy? Anyone know? He used to be our first pick, and props are meant to peak in their late 20s/early 30s. Has his scrummaging really gone backwards or is he just a victim of Deans' broner for Alexander?

 

[qwerty51]

Still not fully recovered from the ACL injury

 

[kiap]

The Soup will be staying with 22-man squads instead of 23, although the crouch-touch-pause engage looks to be out and the 5 second rucks in.

SANZAR rules out extra prop in Super Rugby

RICHARD KNOWLER

..... Sanzar boss Greg Peters confirmed that regardless of whether the International Rugby Board allows an extra front rower on the bench for next year's tests, no such allowance will be made for the southern hemisphere competition.

..... Peters said the idea didn't receive universal support, although the New Zealand Rugby Union was in favour.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/sport/rugby/7734236/Sanzar-rules-out-extra-prop-in-Super-Rugby

 

[What2040]

Still not fully recovered from the ACL injury

Then shit the bloke will be retired before he recovers
Didn't he ciome back for the Welsh game at RWC and hasn't been injured since (seriously)
Correct me if I'm wrong

 

[TSR]

I think Braveheart (??) wrote a good piece about how long it takes to come back from an ACL in one of the threads. Seemed to know what he was talking about. From memory he quoted 18 mths to fully recover. (Sorry - too lazy to go find it).

 

[qwerty51]

Then shit the bloke will be retired before he recovers
Didn't he ciome back for the Welsh game at RWC and hasn't been injured since (seriously)
Correct me if I'm wrong

I will and you're wrong. He did his ACL before the Samoa game remember. He barely got a pre-season in, he came back just before Super rugby kicked off.

 

[topo]

There's plenty of good footy left in the Cat. Like Burgess, banish him at your peril.

 

[What2040]

amm sure robbo has plenty of good footy in him. But no different to any other player - if you are on the park you are fit - don't use it as an excuse for poor performance

 

[TSR]

Yes, but I think there is a difference between being fit to play and in peak fitness. He is clearly fit enough to play, but appears to still be getting back to peak fitness.

It is no different to Kurtley Beale being fit currently fit enough to be our best available number 10, but not being at the level he was in 2010 when he was dynamite.

 

[What2040]

Yeash, but I think there is a difference between being fit to play and in peak fitness. He is clearly fit enough to play, but appears to still be getting back to peak fitness.

It is no different to Kurtley Beale being fit currently fit enough to be our best available number 10, but not being at the level he was in 2010 when he was dynamite.

TSR - I do not discriminate - I just want all of the team to be friggin dynamite - whether Robbo, Alexander, BB, KB (Kurtley Beale) - everyone needs to put in to the best of their ability without excuses of any kind - really hope KB (Kurtley Beale) is back to best
Go the Wallabies

 

[fatprop]

Nice piece from Brian Moore

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...s-of-IRB-examination-of-the-modern-scrum.html

My basic premise was that as a result of the then new ‘crouch, touch, pause, engage’ sequence and the condoned ignoring of other laws, the scrum had become a contest of brute power where the primary aim of both packs was to win the ‘hit’.

The conclusions to the report expressly support my above contention that “modern scrumming involves a high initial impact or ‘hit’ on engagement, followed by sustained pushing forces throughout the scrum” — contrary to the law stating pushing should only begin when the ball leaves the scum-half’s hands.

Chief amongst a number of recommendations is the removal of the artificially created “hit” by, at least at amateur level, front rows engaging passively. This would most easily be achieved by the addition of the second and back rows quickly thereafter.
I also claimed that impact scrummaging was giving rise to the risk of chronic back injury and early retirement and permanent longer term spinal damage. The empirical conclusion of the report is that the scrum is now “ ... a situation which has the potential to produce the repetitive sub-critical injuries that in theory could lead to chronic pain and early degenerative changes to the cervical and lumbar spine”.
I also recently criticised the IRB’s failure to address the well-known fact that modern jerseys, designed to prevent gripping in tackles, are dangerous when props are supposed to bind on them in scrums. The report asks for clothing modifications.

 

[hawktrain]

The Bledisloe got me thinking and discussing the scrum with a couple of mates. Came up with a couple of ideas:

- all penalties from the scrum be short arms. Seems like a no brainer for me. I'm a qualified referee and sometimes am unable to pick which team (if any) caused a scrum to collapse, so I think its unfair to get a shot at 3 points for something so 50/50.

- a no-hit scrum. Now, I know forwards will hate this, and I would never say this in front of any forwards from my club, but most collapses seem to occur on the inital hit. So how about a trial of a no-hit scrum where the forwards just fold in whenever they're ready, and then push once the ball is fed. That way it is still a contest, but you should lessen the amount of collapses, and also the number of penalties given for incorrect binds.

Anything to reduce the number of reset scrums should be done IMO. Nothing more frustrating for a back than to be standing out waiting for a scrum to be set over and over, and I know how much it annoys the forwards, who don't think they've done anything wrong, yet the referee blows it up.

 

[Lee Grant]

- a no-hit scrum. Now, I know forwards will hate this, and I would never say this in front of any forwards from my club, but most collapses seem to occur on the inital hit. So how about a trial of a no-hit scrum where the forwards just fold in whenever they're ready, and then push once the ball is fed. That way it is still a contest, but you should lessen the amount of collapses, and also the number of penalties given for incorrect binds.

As it used to be.

The referees have a difficult job to do and it's not their fault. Well, they can blame their fathers a bit - but more of that later.

The power hit may be a spectacle that fans like, but the price that has to be paid for it is anathema to someone of my generation. It has made the scrum one of the few things about rugby that is not as good as it was back in the day.

The virus of the power hit has spawned the horrid diseases of:
- scrum collapses, which are dangerous
- neck disc injuries from repetition
- other resets such as front rowers standing up when they feel like it
- therefore fewer minutes of rugby in a game
- refs guessing on blame when scrums collapse - everything happens so quickly
- refs guessing on early engages
- refs guessing on binding as a cause of collapse
- therefore dominant scrums getting dudded by bad guesses
- loss of a credible scrum tunnel because feet have to move around to get balance
- consequently a need to put the ball in the scrum skew into a clear space.
- therefore compliance of referees with crooked feeds unless grossly skew
- therefore the death of the hooking contest

Some forum members probably don't know what a hooking contest is - and some probably think that tight heads have always been caused by locks kicking the ball forward to the other side of the scrum. Or if they know what a hooking contest was it's only because they read about it in a book or on the internet. They never saw it in a professional game and precious little in an amateur one.

They don't know that there used to be a great rugby contest in the old days when the ball was fed into the middle of the scrum. It was the law, and actually, still is. The tunnel was clear and both hookers hooked for the ball; the ability of defending hookers to earn a genuine tight head was a big talking point. ["Bloggs is not as quick as Nerk but he'll always get you a couple of tight heads in a game".]

Had the fathers of today's referees kept pinging scrummies for putting the ball in skew into clear space behind their hooker's left foot, the lawmakers would have looked at the root cause and got rid of the power hit 15 years ago. But to speed up the game the referees ignored the crookedness, and thereby killed the hooking contest.

The power hit, already born, but young, grew to be the monster it is now and instead of snuffing the life out of it lawmakers tried to control it. They still are.

I say: "Crouch, aim fire." Kill it.

But I digress, and rant also.
.

 

[JJJ]

Is the power hit as big in France? From what I've read Carl Hayman had to adjust his technique a lot when he moved to France. Apparently there's much more wrestling/dark arts involved there, which makes me wonder if the power hit is as dominant.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I'd like to see the power hit banished from the scrum henceforth, for all the reasons outlined by Lee above. All it does is increase the chance of a collapse and injuries. The real power in a scrum (and thus the dominance) should come in after the feed.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

And bring back the hooking contest.

Force the cheating runt halfbacks to roll the ball down the centre of the scrum.

The Laws are already in place, the Referees just need to enforce the existing Law.

 

[TSR]

- a no-hit scrum. Now, I know forwards will hate this, and I would never say this in front of any forwards from my club, but most collapses seem to occur on the inital hit. So how about a trial of a no-hit scrum where the forwards just fold in whenever they're ready, and then push once the ball is fed. That way it is still a contest, but you should lessen the amount of collapses, and also the number of penalties given for incorrect binds.

You're wrong to assume all forwards will oppose removing the hit. Look no further than the article FP has posted quoting Brian Moore. Plus there are numerous post from people on here who are forwards who have expressed they would like the power hit to be removed, amongst other changes.

 

[jimmydubs]

I think Braveheart (??) wrote a good piece about how long it takes to come back from an ACL in one of the threads. Seemed to know what he was talking about. From memory he quoted 18 mths to fully recover. (Sorry - too lazy to go find it).

His case is not exactly normal either.... my understanding is that he has no ACL in the right knee now.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

JO'N reads G&GR?

From Fox Sports Article produced by Bruce Ross mate Iain Payton of the Terrorgraph

Outgoing ARU boss John O'Neill calls for scrum hit to be scrapped and for return of ELVs

Read more: http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/outgoing-aru-boss-john-oneill-calls-for-scrum-hit-to-be-scrapped-and-for-return-of-elvs/story-e6frf4pu-1226504685449#ixzz2AYw2xZct

 

[hawktrain]

Okay, admit it, which one of you is John O'Neill?

It is the logical train of thought now...might get a trial in next year's ITM/Currie Cups?