Shute Shield 2013
- Thread starter Hugh Jarse
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B
BellyTwoBlues
Guest
What do you mean by that?
Finally we are on topic!! Have the beasties lost a few players? Why are you tipping the rats to be a threat?
Intruder
Dave Cowper (27)
Personally I don't see Warringah shaking up the competition as much as Norths or Souths did last season. Top 4 sides will remain the same in no particular order;
1. Uni
2. Souths
3. Eastwood
4. Manly
However the next 4 teams will provide much more of a thrill in regards to snaring a finals spot. Despite Easts not qualifying due to disciplinary reasons we should expect them back in the finals race likewise Norths. The final two spots are up for grabs IMO Randwick have had some big changes in the off-season. Parramatta are developing quite nicely after their best performance in the SS. Warringah have recruited well during the break however will they have the depth to carry them through to September and finally Wests on their day can beat anyone in the competition. I'm going to take a punt and back Randwick to make the finals race in 2013.
5. Easts
6. Norths
7. Parramatta
8. Randwick
I think this analysis is pretty close to the mark.
Uni under Malone will be incredibly strong, with the 150th celebrations being an obvious focus. Souths may have a second year syndrome, but will still be tough at forshaw. I suspect fighting for the top of the 8 will be Eastwood, Norths & Manly (hopefully). The remaining spots will be fought between Randwick, Parra and West Harbour. I don't see much prospect for Easts (still without a president/board), Penrith or Gordon.
Warringah are hard to pick, maybe Harvey will make a difference, but the problem last year was the pack, particularly the tight 5. When they have played the local derby over the last few years, they havent really been in the games because of a deficient scrum. Salesi Manu available all year would help with this alot.
N
neutral1
Guest
I mean I don't think they are going to be any stronger in terms of playing strength , depth is another matter and will help them through the grades. Just an opinion. I am sure you rate the coach etc but it will have to be first class to continue the improvement out West.
In terms Of Easts - they have financial and personnel issues that will haunt them, whether they admit it or not. They set high standards and it's going to be tough for them to meet those standards.
Warringah have recruited well in the forwards from what I have heard - Harvey will not be the reason for their rise - but they have some fantastic backs who can win any game if they get parity up front. Possibly only one back line around with more natural strike power.
rugbyisfun
Jimmy Flynn (14)
Pure Gold
T
TOCC
Guest
Exactly, I'm not sure why the most obvious solution is so often overlooked for some extravagant 'appease everyone pipe-dream'..
The two biggest professional comps in Australia were built by having the amateur competition turn professional, the NRL was born from the NSWRL an AFL from the VFL. The A-League was different, but there are ethnic and cultural reasons for that.
Keep it simple, practical and economically sound. Forget about creating new teams from scratch or transplanting existing teams into foreign lands, take what we have now and lift the standard.
Maybe along the lines of Shute Shield and the Premier Grade stay the same for the majority of the slightly shortened season including finals, but then you have the equivalent of the Heineken Cup following those comps with the top 4 clubs from Brisbane and Sydney plus one or two from Canberra in a shortened higher standard competition.
If a economically sound competition is first established in rugby union heartland, they can then look to expand into Melb/Perth/Adelaide.
2bluesfan
Nev Cottrell (35)
Interesting idea, certainly worth looking into.
Dave Beat
Paul McLean (56)
Do the clubs want a shorterned season, I dont think last years format was liked?
Instead of shorterning, could the start date be moved forward from April?
It is what it is
John Solomon (38)
A question for everyone.
Has there been a single club in any professional sporting organisation in greater Sydney that has remained profitable without the support of a large leagues club or generous benefactor?
My money says no but I'd love to be proved wrong.
There's plenty of examples of clubs who have failed financially even with a benefactor or leagues club behind them across a myriad of pro sports including RL, Soccer, Basketball, & AFL.
If this is the case, then who has the money to invest in a competition like the Shute Shield where every club will eventually fail financially?
The ARU, Waratahs, NSWRU and SRU certainly don't have the money to support a sustained investment in a club competition and the TV stations just don't have the programming space and/or desire to show another winter sport. FTA doesn't really even support Test rugby, and Pay TV is jammed with AFL, RL & Super Rugby programming.
Despite the best intentions of a lot of good people, the current Shute Shield format with the existing clubs is never going to emerge as a 3rd tier alternative. In the upcoming seasons it will become a feeder comp for an alternative 3rd tier competition yet to be finalised.
We shouldn't feel too bad, EPL heavyweights Man U and Liverpool owe billions between them and the other successful clubs are mainly owned by Russian Oligarchs who lose hundreds of millions every year.
Has there been a single club in any professional sporting organisation in greater Sydney that has remained profitable without the support of a large leagues club or generous benefactor?
My money says no but I'd love to be proved wrong.
There's plenty of examples of clubs who have failed financially even with a benefactor or leagues club behind them across a myriad of pro sports including RL, Soccer, Basketball, & AFL.
If this is the case, then who has the money to invest in a competition like the Shute Shield where every club will eventually fail financially?
The ARU, Waratahs, NSWRU and SRU certainly don't have the money to support a sustained investment in a club competition and the TV stations just don't have the programming space and/or desire to show another winter sport. FTA doesn't really even support Test rugby, and Pay TV is jammed with AFL, RL & Super Rugby programming.
Despite the best intentions of a lot of good people, the current Shute Shield format with the existing clubs is never going to emerge as a 3rd tier alternative. In the upcoming seasons it will become a feeder comp for an alternative 3rd tier competition yet to be finalised.
We shouldn't feel too bad, EPL heavyweights Man U and Liverpool owe billions between them and the other successful clubs are mainly owned by Russian Oligarchs who lose hundreds of millions every year.
Dave Beat
Paul McLean (56)
It is what it WAS - no doubt you also bounce back, instead of bouncing forward.
Long road ahead, and no doubt some challenges as well.
Invest in the Grassroots, and allow it to grow.
Programs through the Schools, surely the 35 ontracted players with each province are renumerated well enough to involve themselve in some school programs (with the support of Shute Shield clubs).
Get the Junior clubs playing curtain raisers to 1st Grade of the Shute Shield games.
Improve and manage what we have.
What has been referred to above Shute Shield, followed by a NSW Rep comp (supported by the Tah's) & a QLD Rep Comp (supported by the Reds) may be acheivable and not as expensive as creating a whole new 3rd tier.
MACCA
Ron Walden (29)
In the bush there are a bunch of teams that play together and when the order or prowess for that year has been set the teams split off into two competitions. The bottom teams play one another as do the top teams.
Translating that to the Shute Shield... The comp stays as is for one round. The teams that make the cut play the other top teams from Brisbane, Melbourne Canberra and/or wherever else there are club sides of the appropriate standard. The remaining Shute Shield sides play for a trophy - the top sides play the other top sides from elsewhere.
There are all sorts of logistical issues that would need to (and could be) overcome however that would accommodate clubs going through the different cycles of success as well as attracting greater interest and hopefully enough $$$ to make it work.
T
TOCC
Guest
To be fair there are always going to be conflicting issues, in an ideal world every premier grade and shute shield team could feature in a new third tier professional rugby competition.
Andrew B Cox
Sydney Middleton (9)
I really like this idea.
The fear is that consistent bottom half teams may see a player drain.
The answer is simple. If you want to play with the big boys, don't be consistently mediocre.
T
TOCC
Guest
Unfortunately we live in a capitalistic culture, to create a competition of equal standards and resources it would cost the ARU more then they can afford. If a competition of higher standard is to be formed on a rather low budget then you need to allow a form of natural selection take place. In the future the ARU or newly formed competition will have a solid base to reenergise some of those clubs which were left by the wayside, but to do it initially will be quite expensive.
no9
Ted Fahey (11)
If a new competetive level of rugby were to be introduced then new provincial identities would be essential in my humble opinion. The ARC was close to achieving this but went too far too quickly and made some mistakes that could be rectified easily. A possible solution to the odd Shute Shied competition format would be for districts like Easts and Randwick to amalgamate (due to their parlous financial situations) but peace in the middle east would be easier to achieve. If they couldn't come together at this level what makes people think that it can be achieved at 3rd tier level. Autonomy of selection and recruitment would need to be handed to officials without a strong club allegiance who could then piece together the best combination of players to represent a newly formed provice. This, by the way should include Sydney Uni. This would hopefully also encourage players to play for a local club without fear of being overlooked at the next level and not having bottom half clubs pillaged every year for their up and coming talent.
ARC had teams (some, not all) representing geographical areas but played at stadiums outside the areas they supposedly represented. They also incurred major costs due to the logistics of flying teams interstate to Melbourne and Brisbane.
I have suggested in the past that the partaking teams should all be located within a two hour drive of the Sydney CBD. This could incorporate Canberra, The Illawarra, Central Coast, Newcastle and possibly out to Bathurst. There is 5 potential provinces already. Add 3-4 Sydney provinces (East, West, North, Central, South?) and a competition takes shape. Academy type sides from the Force and Rebels could also be included if based in Sydney or the 2hr limit. A similar concept could take place based in Brisbane.
Yes, there would be the costs of bus hire (cheaper than air fairs) if players didn't travel independently but the ARU has to contribute something towards the development of the game. Doesn't it?
The whole premise of an extra tier is to provide opportunities for players and coaches to prove themselves before stepping up to the S15 ranks. With this in mind it would be foolish to think that this format would be a self supporting professional environment. Payment would have to be limited to essential staff and reimbursing out of pocket expenses to players with perhaps some prizemoney allocated to the top four teams if a sponsor could be found.
No, it's not the Currie Cup or ITM Champs but we face different circumstances to our SANZAR cousins. The reality is that rugby in general has dipped considerably in both participation and fan base. The ARU has an obligation to oversee and streamline all areas of the game if it's to survive into the next decades. The current dependance on the school system and academies to develop hardened profesionals capable of competing on the international stage has failed and reinvigorating the club scene by developing a recognised pathway to representative rugby through the clubs would be a start.
B
BellyTwoBlues
Guest
Oh the coach is first class no question. The beauty is, we will see soon enough!
Who have Warringah recruited in the forwards?
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