Shute Shield 2018

[Inside Shoulder]

How? A large % of ex-Shore students live in and around Mosman. There is also a rugby club in Mosman. Why do you need an Old Boys club when you have such a neat geographic solution?

There's no Joeys Old Boys either. Are they also on the teat?
.

Mosman wasn't always the place to live for ex wallabies, rugby administrators and shore boys and old boys - but there's been a Mosman rugby club for a very long time.
No Newington or Scots OBs subbies either, as far as I know, and they're not on the teat: just seems to be that one bastion of entitlement, doesn't it?

 

[barbarian]

I've honestly got no idea what you are on about here. Certainly the ARU/RA is insular, and the North Shore is over-represented - no arguments here.

But let me try and work through this - Shore doesn't have an Old Boys club because....... everyone is working at the ARU and thus too busy to play? Or Subbies is too 'low brow' for them and so they play in the Shute Shield?

Honestly help me out here, just trying to join the dots on the conspiracy.
.

 

[Spieber]

No Newington or Scots OBs subbies either

NOBS was quite a strong club in the early 80s but fell apart with over reliance on non-OBs.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I've honestly got no idea what you are on about here. Certainly the ARU/RA is insular, and the North Shore is over-represented - no arguments here.

But let me try and work through this - Shore doesn't have an Old Boys club because... everyone is working at the ARU and thus too busy to play? Or Subbies is too 'low brow' for them and so they play in the Shute Shield?

Honestly help me out here, just trying to join the dots on the conspiracy.
.

You're reading too much into it - it was an idle attempt at painting a potentially, but evidently not, humourous obscure connection between a perceived born to rule mentality and the level at which a sub-group of people are prepared to make their contributions to the game.
I apologise.
It wont happen again.
Just delete my account.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

NOBS was quite a strong club in the early 80s but fell apart with over reliance on non-OBs.

NOBS were all playing at GOBS in the 80's, IIRC.

 

[Rugby Central]

You're entitled to your opinions and I'm entitled to have an alternate view, but please don't give me the moral high horse stuff.

I had you pegged as a rational, reasonable poster until this effort. You seem to have a view that one part of the game is to blame for all the ills going on around it.

Firstly, apologies for the intemperance of my post on Saturday.

I believe you misunderstand my feeling towards SS. I don't think they are to blame. That is almost wholly reserved for the appalling mismanagement, both administration and financial, for those in more rarefied air than SS. My belief is that SS is the only viable competition that can drive the necessary change needed to save the game.

Unfortunately it would need to make some significant changes to accommodate this. I also believe it would make SS clubs stronger, more financially stable and build player numbers for rugby in general.

The main thing is it should not be the responsibility of SS to save the game, however it is obvious that Rugby Australia has neither the will nor finances to do what they should. It's time the rugby community as a whole gave up on hoping the “deadbeat” parent will follow through, and formulate a solution without them.

I believe talking in concepts is the inhibitor to this discussion. If you are interested, I will take the time to provide you with a more detailed structure separately.

Respectfully,

RC

 

[Rugby Central]

Hang on, why the hell would Forest,who are independent, want to report under the Marlins and be told who they can select from week to week.

They are happy in their place in the world,and are just as resistant to change as every other entity.
IMO the subbies would fight harder than the SS against the changes you suggest.

And I think you're on the wrong track in regards to support.
Most people who spend their day at Subbies or School are not then going to spend another afternoon supporting some other entity.

Just as,players who would not make the cut in a smaller SS squad would not automatically sign up with a subbies club.
The majority would be lost to the game.

Baby,bath water etc

ILTW, you a right to question why Subbies would cooperate. But basing the thinking on the way things are currently structured is redundant. How people react under a completely different structure is not going to be the same. As mentioned to QH I believe talking in concepts is inhibiting this discussion. If you're interested, I will send you a more detailed structure separately.

I do have to ask about two of your statements, because if true, then there is no hope for rugby and the white flag may as well be raised.

If those who play school and Subbies rugby are not interested in supporting the 3rd tier of rugby (as NRC would be unnecessary) that they are connected to, then what hope is there. Not to mention, the most entertaining rugby in town. The fact that people still purchase Super and Wallaby tickets – despite recent results – suggests otherwise.

And if people won’t play because they don’t make the top grade, how do most SS Clubs field so many teams. In the proposed scenario these players are still playing rugby, still with their mates, still connected to the SS Club – albeit differently – and still in the area. If correct, your theory also suggests those players who don’t quite make it have no ambition to earn a place for higher honours? Again, if true, that’s an attitude problem that may very well explain the difference between Aus and NZ rugby right there.

I have faith that rugby players want to play rugby. While considerations of history and tradition are components, they are not the only drivers. Under the suggested structure, mateship, club ethos and love of the game are all still there. And with the local connections to SS, the history and tradition are changed, not removed.

Respectfully,

RC

 

[Pfitzy]

If those who play ... Subbies rugby are not interested in supporting the 3rd tier of rugby (as NRC would be unnecessary)

Point of order Mr Chairman: our Subbies Firsts run out at the same time of a Saturday day as Parramatta Firsts.

Therefore, supporting the Two Blues on game day becomes quite impossible.

 

[I like to watch]

I
I do have to ask about two of your statements, because if true, then there is no hope for rugby and the white flag may as well be raised.

If those who play school and Subbies rugby are not interested in supporting the 3rd tier of rugby (as NRC would be unnecessary) that they are connected to, then what hope is there. Not to mention, the most entertaining rugby in town. The fact that people still purchase Super and Wallaby tickets – despite recent results – suggests otherwise.

And if people won’t play because they don’t make the top grade, how do most SS Clubs field so many teams. In the proposed scenario these players are still playing rugby, still with their mates, still connected to the SS Club – albeit differently – and still in the area. If correct, your theory also suggests those players who don’t quite make it have no ambition to earn a place for higher honours? Again, if true, that’s an attitude problem that may very well explain the difference between Aus and NZ rugby right there.

I have faith that rugby players want to play rugby. While considerations of history and tradition are components, they are not the only drivers. Under the suggested structure, mateship, club ethos and love of the game are all still there. And with the local connections to SS, the history and tradition are changed, not removed.

Respectfully,

RC

Most people I know,that are invested in School/club Rugby are more than happy to attend one or two Tahs games and/or Test matches a year.
They are not willing to invest their time and money in another entity that competes every week for 6 months.

In terms of SS players it's the 4th graders that would be culled,some of whom are in the twilight of their careers,some who are there because their mates play there,it's these guys that would walk away, and not search for alternatives.

 

[Heavyd]

Point of order Mr Chairman: our Subbies Firsts run out at the same time of a Saturday day as Parramatta Firsts.

Therefore, supporting the Two Blues on game day becomes quite impossible.

I’m too lazy to read pages of past posts to follow what is actually being proposed. A combination of Moving playing times or affiliating subbies with SS clubs? In terms of participation, subbies if 4 times the size of SS so any changes to kick off times rules out changes to subbies. Potentially shifting SS to a Sunday afternoon has some merit to attract more local support from other rugby communities.

 

[Quick Hands]

I’m too lazy to read pages of past posts to follow what is actually being proposed. A combination of Moving playing times or affiliating subbies with SS clubs? In terms of participation, subbies if 4 times the size of SS so any changes to kick off times rules out changes to subbies. Potentially shifting SS to a Sunday afternoon has some merit to attract more local support from other rugby communities.

I think that your post illustrates the essential weakness in the proposal. Everyone wants to play on a Saturday afternoon, and as most of the people involved are amateurs then everyone should be able to play on a Saturday afternoon.

 

[Quick Hands]

Most people I know,that are invested in School/club Rugby are more than happy to attend one or two Tahs games and/or Test matches a year.
They are not willing to invest their time and money in another entity that competes every week for 6 months.

In terms of SS players it's the 4th graders that would be culled,some of whom are in the twilight of their careers,some who are there because their mates play there,it's these guys that would walk away, and not search for alternatives.

100% agree.

Anyone who is playing lower grades for a SS club has made a conscious decision to register and play for that club for a range of reasons; playing with mates, playing for the club that dad played, playing for the club with a family or junior association, playing for the local club or they just might prefer to play for a district club. Subbies players have made a similar conscious decision for similar reasons.

Having some sort of Orwellian bureaucracy telling people (who are all volunteers) who they can and can't play for, who they should play for etc., won't work - not matter how good the theory behind the proposed re-organisation is. If we were starting from scratch, we'd do things differently and if clubs in the same geographic area want to have a close relationship, then I think that would be a good thing, but imposing from above isn't the way to go - as we saw with the ARC.

 

[Spieber]

Confirmed

http://www.shuteshield.com/media-release-penrith-emus/

 

[Rebelsfan]

Confirmed

http://www.shuteshield.com/media-release-penrith-emus/

an absolute indictment on Rugby in Australia and the fact that the administrators have nothing to say , says so much more.

 

[Quick Hands]

How? A large % of ex-Shore students live in and around Mosman. There is also a rugby club in Mosman. Why do you need an Old Boys club when you have such a neat geographic solution?

There's no Joeys Old Boys either. Are they also on the teat?
.

Knox, Waverley, Barker, St Pats, Pius, Redfield and Riverview seem to be the only Old Boy teams left. Kings used be really strong and had 4 grades IIRC, High and Grammar also had teams in the past.

Many of the older surf clubs used to have teams as well, but not many of them left either.

EDIT: Kings OB still going - in Halligan Cup

 

[Rugbynutter39]

an absolute indictment on Rugby in Australia and the fact that the administrators have nothing to say , says so much more.

I am so frigging angry about this - final straw for me with RA and all their bullshit rhetoric about the importance of the Western Sydney as key growth area for Rugby. Seems RA anti anything west as seems they only like things that are North or East...fuckers....

 

[boyo]

Confirmed

http://www.shuteshield.com/media-release-penrith-emus/

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...-sydney-rugby-union-hook-20180430-p4zcjf.html

 

[Quick Hands]

I understand the angst about the removal of Penrith from SS, but this has been coming for a while - since the early 00s in fact when ARU/NSWRU pulled the funding.

I have enormous sympathy for the Penrith club, as I feel that they have been treated quite poorly over a period of time. However, the fact remains that the Penrith club and officials have been unable to put the club into a position in which it is competitive in the competition. In fact for at least the last 5 years they've been a basket case. In the circumstances, I don't believe that the SRU had any choice but to remove them from the competition.

IMO the best thing for the Penrith club would be to return to Kentwell Cup in 2019 and have the club stabilise itself.

I hope that NSWRU have learnt a valuable lesson from the whole sorry affair, and that is that however desirable it may be to have a strong rugby presence in the outer western parts of Sydney it will require significant and sustained funding and resources for it to become a reality. Having an uncompetitive team out there is, IMO, worse than having no team at all.

Might I suggest that NSWRU look at a different model if they are ever to attempt this again. Set the club up from scratch, fund it, staff it, resource it and give it a decent home base. There exists at Blacktown a sports complex where a western Sydney rugby academy could be based and with the members of the academy forming the basis of the programme.

 

[sidelineview]

On the subject of rugby in the Penrith area, a quick bit of research shows they have four Junior Rugby Clubs.
Is anyone familiar with the strength of those Junior Clubs and what rugby is played in schools in the area?

 

[John S]

On the subject of rugby in the Penrith area, a quick bit of research shows they have four Junior Rugby Clubs.
Is anyone familiar with the strength of those Junior Clubs and what rugby is played in schools in the area?

I know my High School St Paul's plays/ed rugby. When I was there did ok. Got towelled by some schools in Bathurst and Bowral. Played in ISA and HICES comps.