Spring Tour Improvements

[something]

One thing that i really like about the current set up (and im talking more specifically about the backs, but it is also true with the pigs) which we havent had in a looooong time is depth. Atleast two test standard players in every position. It creates a healthy rivalry which in turn improves players.

 

[scaraby]

One thing that i really like about the current set up (and im talking more specifically about the backs, but it is also true with the pigs) which we havent had in a looooong time is depth. Atleast two test standard players in every position. It creates a healthy rivalry which in turn improves players.

yes..for years we always use to say that the second best 15 in world rugby was All Blacks b side. Be nice to have an equivalent Wallaby "b side" in 2015. The current B side would be pretty tidy at the moment.

 

[I like to watch]

One thing that i really like about the current set up (and im talking more specifically about the backs, but it is also true with the pigs) which we havent had in a looooong time is depth. Atleast two test standard players in every position. It creates a healthy rivalry which in turn improves players.

Or is it that we have been luckier with injuries lately?
How many debutants in the spring tour?

 

[Brumby Runner]

Braveheart I take your points on board, but I still believe that there are to many times when he goes into the contact and then stops running whereas if he kept pumping his legs he would be able to make serious ground & take even more defenders out of play. I suppose my poorly made point is that I would like to see how he performs in a full Super season before we start penciling him into the Wallabies side.

If selection at lock for the Wallabies depends only on leg drive, Skelton will replace Rob Simmons at a very early date. Of course it doesn't, but I am merely pointing out your criticism of his play applies even more to Simmons who has been around for a much longer time. Simmons probably is a better lineout proponent, but Skelton does jump unlike Sita, but he (Simmons) is less effective in all other aspects of lock play imo.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Skelton is still a kid. Although so is Etzebeth.

And Brodie Retallick.

 

[Brumby Runner]

have to agree with sucker. Skelton is big and powerful however at international level there are many big and powerful forwards. He has to improve his fitness and mobility and show that he can put it on for at least the majority of a tough 80 minute game and not just a cameo 25 minutes

And for how long have posters on this forum been lamenting the absence of Palu as the big and powerful forward needed by the Wallabies, or hoping against all the evidence that Sita Timani would use his size in a big and powerful manner? In recent years we have really been deficient in Big and Powerful forwards, and I believe Will Skelton will one day meet that need.

 

[Ignoto]

And Brodie Retallick.

Is that a kid in Orc years or human years? I thought he was just born out of the mud somewhere in middle earth and turfed out onto the All Black production line.

 

[RugbyReg]

Skelton has promise but that test was bloody fast paced. I don't think he would've kept up in that 1st half.

 

[Hawko]

Skelton looks very promising and if he can kick on next year it creates some serious competition at lock. I'd like to see him step up and really dominate the collision in super rugby in 2014.

Way too early! Man he's got promise but next year at the Tahs he will only be a bench player behind Potgieter and Douglas. He'll be an exceptional replacement but that's all. I hope Link takes him away on the EOYT next year as a non-playing team member, like NZ did with Ardie Savea, just to give him some development. 2015 should be his first big year if the injury gods are kind. But if he's pushed too early, as some Aussie players are, he'll break physically or suffer second year syndrome.

NZ are writing the how-to development manual. They gave Luatua a couple of tests then dropped him, despite his good performance, because they know that he'll get a taste and come back even stronger. The coaching team have stated this in print, its just not journalist's talk. They've done the same with Cane, Coles and others. Players developed slowly and steadily turn out to be the finished product once they make the team. This is how NZ create their greater depth, it is not just some natural advantage given to them at birth.

 

[Dave Beat]

if you are talking about the try scoring stats then the 34 tries were scored in 12 tests.

The 19 tries referenced were scored in 18 tests.

Thanks for that, was keen to see the difference since Link took over.
I sought the full 12 months last year as I wanted to be sure it included the EOY tour.

Izzy has made a huge difference hasn't he?

Yes but I do think it is more to do with Link.

 

[Lee Grant]

Skelton may make the grade as a Wob one day but as others have indicated: he has to prove himself.

Although he played for 80 minutes against the Lions (IIRR) he has to prove that he can play a block of games of at least 60 minutes in Super Rugby when he gets a chance, as he most likely will at some point next year.

He's not bad for a bloke who I described as a gentle giant in Schools rugby in 2010 though: not bad at all.

Another who has surprised me is Matt To'omua who didn't live up to his promise after leaving school, even factoring in how young he was and the high level he was playing at. He didn't impress a lot in club rugby either.

It is a pity that he missed the last games of the Spring Tour because for the first time in my eyes he looked like an assured starting test player. As a 12 who can play the position in the old NZ "second-five" way he made a better fist of it than Lilo, when he got his chance.

And what can you say about Izzy that hasn't been said before? The surprise for me in 2013 is how he dealt with non-league matters such as presenting the ball at rucks and dealing with two extra defenders on the drift.

For all his manic style of play Cummins never convinced me that he was a reliable winger at the top level until this tour. And he (and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and Hooper) should be commended for how they chased down kicks, including restarts. You can see a coaching focus there now.

Tomane improved, as he had to, but he is still raw—and coming too far inside to allow one break from Wales was not a good look.

We will all have been pleased watching Cooper getting his confidence back and the type of rugby that it generated. We missed it.

One of the big plusses for me from the tour was the early realignment on defence, and despite some flat moments when opponents were let back in the game, how they held out opponents when when it mattered (except at Twickenham).

The things I will be looking forward to next year are more frequent dominant tackles in traffic areas from a bigger spread of players—and more dominant and early counter rucks, and the stopping the same from opponents.

That and the appearance of left-footed kicker who can keep his place in the side.

But as others would have mentioned: playing the likes of Ireland or Wales is not the same as playing NZ and the Boks, because they don't give you time to do some of the things the Wallabies did well on tour—even England, who I thought were not that flash in beating us.

Those two SANZAR teams deny time, which is the same as space.

Einstein was right.
.

 

[suckerforred]

Einstein was right.
.

So are you most of the time.

 

[RugbyReg]

Lee I remember your comments (consistently) of To'omua being a dark Lynagh. Well this was the tour I really saw it. In fact I reckon there were some similarities to the 84 Grand Slam team (10 Ella and 12 Lynagh) and this years (10 Cooper and 12 To'omua). Such a solid influence on the team and I could really see him being the long term Wallaby ten should Cooper, like Ella, get bored and want to go elsewhere.


That takes me back RR. I think I said that Matt had the style of a brown Noddy Lynagh, when he was at school.

LG

 

[Richo]

I don't think the Timani / Skelton comparison really holds that much water, except that they are both very big units. Watching Timani's games with the Tahs three years ago was frustrating. He dropped the ball all the time, didn't jump in line-outs, and seemed to only really be effective at the scrum. Skelton's issues seem to me to be more about building on an existing base rather than adding skills (like catching the ball) that Timani didn't really have. Watching Skelton destroy mauls, including against the BIL, made clear that he understood how to use his size much more effectively. He also seems to have the basics down more than Timani did at a similar point. My impression is that his ceiling is higher than Timani's, and what is needed to get him there is different too.

 

[Gnostic]

For me the pleasing aspect was that style of rugby they played. Gone was the war of attrition and the Wallabies actually looked to score instead of grinding out meaningless phase after phase. With the benefits of hindsight there is a clear progression from the start of the RC.

My top three achievements are:-
1) Wallaby fans are actually genuinely excited about the games and the level of engagement returning.
2) Point 1 comes about because of the style of play - I don't buy into the whole "Australian running game" crap as the 1991 team kicked A LOT, but it was effective and skilfully executed. Here is the key the style of play is exciting and enjoyable because the skills are being well executed and have a clear purpose. It isn't headless chook running, which is just as bad as aimless kicking. The only "Australian way" I want to see is purely "have a go ya mug" and they certainly have been doing that.
3) Selection - all tied up in this is the behavioural standards and form based reasoning for the selections of players. I have never been a fan of some of the regular Wallaby starters because of serious limitations in their play, which under the previous administration were often a limiting factor on the team. Now those limitation whilst still there are balanced by other selections and playing structures. Basically I see the side as actually being coached properly now to achieve the potential of the players. Under Deans I despaired that a golden generation of Australian talent would be wasted and we would never see the true potential they had, but now we see the beginnings of them being able to flourish.

One final point, never again should we see the argument of lack of depth excuse so many poor performances by the Wallabies to cover the coaching group. With essentially the same side that Deans had available, and in some areas less choice the Link group were able to produce an upward curve of performances, even when voluntarily disciplining 6 players and removing them from contention.

Well done boys and well done Link.

 

[Bowside]

I think if Skelton keeps performing Australia needs him in the team sooner rather than later.

Sure the wallabies won a few games on tour, but there are still very real problems with the tight 5. Simmons and Horwill played better but both are still not close to the level of guys like Etzebeth and Retalic. Furthermore, we're not going to win the world cup with Alexander and Kepu as our two TH props.

For next year - I think Speight, Skelton, Godwin and Toby Smith will be capped before the year ends. Beale and O'Connor will be back - but maybe not in the starting team. Pocock and Higgers hopefully shoring up the backrow.

Combinations need to be nailed down next season - especially the centres.

 

[Bairdy]

Tetera Faulkner and Kieran Longbottom for the Wallaby front row

 

[RoffsChoice]

Faulkner has promise

 

[Train Without a Station]

I think if Skelton keeps performing Australia needs him in the team sooner rather than later.

Sure the wallabies won a few games on tour, but there are still very real problems with the tight 5. Simmons and Horwill played better but both are still not close to the level of guys like Etzebeth and Retalic. Furthermore, we're not going to win the world cup with Alexander and Kepu as our two TH props.

Bowside could not disagree more. I was going to elaborate on Gnostics post about players with serious limitations being picked but I will zero in on this one instead.

Simmons and Horwill do need to improve yes. Primarily they need more aggression in contact, specifically when ball running for Horwill. Otherwise they are doing the exact job of a lock, which is good to see.

I consider that good to see because the hallmark of the Deans era (or error haha) was picking players who had serious limitations in one of their primary positional roles, due to "X-Factor" or some other buzzword. E.g. Timani the non-line out jumping lock. Burgess the poor passing, great running and tackling halfback, etc.

We are finally developing a team where each player can perform their primary function, with a few able to do a bit more, and that's going to separate us from other teams hopefully. Skelton is another player who falls in the former category. Big unit, physical, however is not a primary line out jumper. Looking at Link's selections, he doesn't really fit the mould as anything more than a potential bench option. Once we have some fit 4/6 players again he may prefer one of them and a 7 on the bench anyway.

 

[BarneySF]

Agree with everything said so far, and while our depth looks pretty good, I think it would be great if we could unearth a fairly large bopper type (on the younger side) in the mold of a Palu/Fotu for no. 8