Spring Tour Improvements

[Train Without a Station]

Definitely agree. A big bopper, tackle breaking, bone crunch hitting number 8 not close to or the wrong side of 30 would go down a treat right now.

 

[Hawko]

Bowside could not disagree more. I was going to elaborate on Gnostics post about players with serious limitations being picked but I will zero in on this one instead.

We are finally developing a team where each player can perform their primary function, with a few able to do a bit more, and that's going to separate us from other teams hopefully. Skelton is another player who falls in the former category. Big unit, physical, however is not a primary line out jumper. Looking at Link's selections, he doesn't really fit the mould as anything more than a potential bench option. Once we have some fit 4/6 players again he may prefer one of them and a 7 on the bench anyway.

Timani was a non-jumper, mainly I think because of his ability to frequently drop the ball. Skelton does jump, can take throws (my memory says he took several against the Force) and has good hands. His problems are twofold: firstly he has still got L plates on, and won't be the full article for 12-18 months and secondly, as BR alluded to in another thread, he is such a big physical unit that he will become injury prone unless his body is carefully trained and developed.

Will he make the grade? Ask me again in June 2015. In the meantime please don't over-criticise or over-hype him, he's just beginning to learn his trade. Being at Uni now is the best place for him to be as their physical development process is the best in Sydney and Chieka is a good enough coach to bring him through for the Tahs.

 

[Hawko]

Tetera Faulkner and Kieran Longbottom for the Wallaby front row

Faulkner is not even starting for his province and Longbottom still has not out scrummed all the best Australian props. They might make it but they are nowhere near it yet.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Timani jumped. As does Skelton. However, they were/will generally be the 3rd to 5th choice jumper in their teams line out. Mostly due their larger size.

Locks should be the 1st and 2nd choice jumpers in a team. That's part of their bread and butter. If you've got a guy who generally can't take 2 or 4 in the line out, you have to put a fitter, faster and more agile loosie there. That means when he jumps, he's not breaking off the line out. When he doesn't, he's a few steps behind play. Because they aren't as fast, the lock is also those few steps behind. Suddenly an inside ball off the 10 has a little more space than it may have.

What I'm saying is there's a reason why after over 100 years, almost every team has a fairly standard stereotype for each position which is similar. Because that's what generally works. Sure sometimes players break this mould, but in the case of Skelton for example any strength you gain is offset by a weakness in the traditional requirements, which must be met somewhere else.

 

[BarneySF]

Definitely agree. A big bopper, tackle breaking, bone crunch hitting number 8 not close to or the wrong side of 30 would go down a treat right now.

Seriously, I think just one of those would pretty much complete the puzzle and then all talk of "cattle" that we were all saying a year or so ago could be dispelled.

 

[Bowside]

Bowside could not disagree more. I was going to elaborate on Gnostics post about players with serious limitations being picked but I will zero in on this one instead.

Simmons and Horwill do need to improve yes. Primarily they need more aggression in contact, specifically when ball running for Horwill. Otherwise they are doing the exact job of a lock, which is good to see.

I consider that good to see because the hallmark of the Deans era (or error haha) was picking players who had serious limitations in one of their primary positional roles, due to "X-Factor" or some other buzzword. E.g. Timani the non-line out jumping lock. Burgess the poor passing, great running and tackling halfback, etc.

We are finally developing a team where each player can perform their primary function, with a few able to do a bit more, and that's going to separate us from other teams hopefully. Skelton is another player who falls in the former category. Big unit, physical, however is not a primary line out jumper. Looking at Link's selections, he doesn't really fit the mould as anything more than a potential bench option. Once we have some fit 4/6 players again he may prefer one of them and a 7 on the bench anyway.

You point is valid and I agree, but I also think it would be wrong to write Skelton off purely as a timani style bopper. He's a much better ball runner and could very well develop into an effective lineout jumper in time. Furthermore he can also be used as a lifter for guys like Fardy, Mowen, Higgers and heck even Pocock.

Everything we say is a bit moot unless he shows it in the super rugby next season though. Still very early days for this bloke.

 

[scaraby]

You point is valid and I agree, but I also think it would be wrong to write Skelton off purely as a timani style bopper. He's a much better ball runner and could very well develop into an effective lineout jumper in time. Furthermore he can also be used as a lifter for guys like Fardy, Mowen, Higgers and heck even Pocock.

Everything we say is a bit moot unless he shows it in the super rugby next season though. Still very early days for this bloke.

Furthermore he can also be used as a lifter for guys like Fardy, Mowen, Higgers and heck even Pocock..............ALL AT ONCE?

 

[Scrubber2050]

I think the tour has decided the following in the Wallabies starting side in 2014, dependant on injuries
1. Slipper
2. Moore
3. Kepu
4. Horwill
5. Simmons
6 Fardy
7. Hooper
8.
9. Genia
10. Cooper
11/14 Cummins +
12.
13.
15. Folau

 

[Try-ranosaurus Rex]

I think the tour has decided the following in the Wallabies starting side in 2014, dependant on injuries
1. Slipper
2. Moore
3. Kepu
4. Horwill
5. Simmons
6 Fardy
7. Hooper
8.
9. Genia
10. Cooper
11/14 Cummins +
12.
13.
15. Folau

I think you can add To'omua to 12. I think we're all but agreed he is the real deal at no.12.

 

[Try-ranosaurus Rex]

yes..for years we always use to say that the second best 15 in world rugby was All Blacks b side. Be nice to have an equivalent Wallaby "b side" in 2015. The current B side would be pretty tidy at the moment.

Injuries aside I think we'd roll out a reasonable "B" XV next year. Imagine a XV (excluding all starting players against Wales).

1. Robinson
2. Polota-Nau
3. Alexander
4. Douglas
5. Pyle
6. Higginbotham
7. Pocock
8. Palu
9. White
10. Foley
11. Betham
12. To'omua
13. Kuridrani
14. Speight
15. Beale

I believe some of the above would make our first XV - but that is beyond my point that none of the above started in our last test match.

To go even further:

16. Fainga'a
17. Sio
18. Ryan
19. Skelton
20. McCalman / Schatz
21. Phipps
22. Horne / Tapuai / Fainga'a
23. Morahan / Shipperly / Crawford

 

[Brumbieman]

Reg, it's a little frustrating to hear that from Larkham after seeing how well To'omua is playing at 12. His robustness suits the position a little more so than Lilo.

The problem is this: Lealiifano is in for surgery and wont be starting the season, which means we need a 10 if To'omua is to play 12, and we don't really have one with even Super rugby experience.

If Lealiifano was fully fit I suspect we might see a switch.

 

[Brumbieman]

Another who has surprised me is Matt To'omua who didn't live up to his promise after leaving school, even factoring in how young he was and the high level he was playing at. He didn't impress a lot in club rugby either.

It is a pity that he missed the last games of the Spring Tour because for the first time in my eyes he looked like an assured starting test player. As a 12 who can play the position in the old NZ "second-five" way he made a better fist of it than Lilo, when he got his chance.

Einstein was right.
.

Yep, i've never really been convinced by To'omua as a flyhalf. He has all the skills etc required, but just never really seemed to own the game.

As a 12 though, I think he's found his position. He seems to revel in being the ball runner who can kick and pass etc. IE not so much the general of the battlefield, but the cavalry commander who seems to enjoy a bit of responsibility, but still lives for the charge and smashing things. He's playing the role that Cooper needs so much to properly shine: have the Nathan Grey style 12 to be Cooper's blunt instrument and take it on when there isn't a lot on, take it straight to hold the opposition defence and stop them sliding early, and tackle like a madman to make his opposite think (and look) twice before running into that channel.

Lealiifano is a bit like Cooper, he seems happiest and at his best when he's being the general. Even when he was running and stepping, he was doing it to create space and set other players up, rather than running into the space created by someone else.

Kudos to Link for spotting it and trialing To'omua at 12.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

To'omua has been one of the finds of the season, though I'd argue that he can as much be the rapier as the sledgehammer. He has, as you say, the tools required of a 10 but his impact is increased at 12. That's because of the physical nature of his play, but he's got great hands too. I think at least one of the centres has to be able to do that (which is why I always rated Horan so highly).

 

[Brumbieman]

Agree with everything said so far, and while our depth looks pretty good, I think it would be great if we could unearth a fairly large bopper type (on the younger side) in the mold of a Palu/Fotu for no. 8

Ita Vaea.Lets hope he recovers.

 

[Tomikin]

I hope Lealiifano has surgery and gets back to 100 percent. Lealiifano of 2012 was something of magic.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Ita Vaea.Lets hope he recovers.

More likely that a fit and healthy Fotu Auelua will fill this role. When on song, he is almost unstoppable in a one man tackle and he hits like a sledgehammer. Also has the ability to set up outside players. With a good Super season in 2014, I tip he will make the Wallabies at No 8 in the mid year tests.

 

[RoffsChoice]

He's getting older though.

 

[No4918]

More likely that a fit and healthy Fotu Auelua will fill this role. When on song, he is almost unstoppable in a one man tackle and he hits like a sledgehammer. Also has the ability to set up outside players. With a good Super season in 2014, I tip he will make the Wallabies at No 8 in the mid year tests.

I don't think he (or Vaea) fits the backrow as McKenzie sees it. Everyone else selected have been workhorses that can play 80 regularly.

6. Fardy or Mowen
7. Pocock or Hooper
8. Higgers or Mowen

Selecting Higgers gives the running threat and would be better with Pocock at 7. This covers the extra breakdown work generally done by Mowen this year to let Hooper run more. I think both those guys will fulfil each role better than Hooper but aren't necessarily as rounded. First listed is my currently preferred backrow.

 

[Scotty]

Not sure link had many other options with the back row so I would necessarily consider him to be set on a type of player there yet.

 

[Ruggo]

We look to have a balanced second row in Simmons and Horwill. Kev may not have been at his best but we know what his best looks like and Simmons has come of age. I don't say this with Reds bias but from a Wallaby perspective looking forward you can bank on these two consistently playing the same position barring injury leading into the test season.