Springboks vs Wallabies @ Newlands 27/9/2014

[boyo]

Hougaard should have received a YC for that tackle of AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), even though a try was scored.

 

[qwerty51]

Hougaard should have received a YC for that tackle of AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), even though a try was scored.

Nigel said if he didn't score he would've carded him which is such bullshit reasoning.

I think the penalty try law should be reviewed too, if AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) dropped the ball I'm sure we would've been awarded a penalty try but why couldn't we get one anyway so we get the conversion under the posts?

 

[Bairdy]

Worth a watch if you have the time.

Just highlights how poor our kicking game is - in particular the execution of our kick chase, lack of variation, and propensity to 'stick to a script' when for example the Springboks kick receivers were deep, anticipating the long touch finders. You only have to watch the All Blacks match on the weekend against the Argies, and the second Bled to see the gulf in each team's kicking.

I dare agree with the notion of the video that the role of our kickers (especially To'omua) in putting the team under immense pressure had more of a toll than Beale's 20 minute stint when collectively the team was worn out from defending. That is not to say all the blame should be laid at the feet of To'omua, because he has proven how great of a player he is.

Scapegoating Beale, however, is unfair.

 

[PaarlBok]

Some piccies from our Legends night last friday which was a massive success. The auction alone raised much more then budget and a big thanks to the sponsors which will by all accounts cut our travelling cost by half.

 

[PaarlBok]

This is for the laaities 2015 Hockey tour of Europe.

 

[ForceFan]

Would welcome some guidance on finding reliable individual player rugby stats for test matches.
There appears to be BIG discrepancies between those that are readily available.
SANZAR is generally in close agreement with ESPN Scrum stats (prob same source) but those on Fox Sports seem way out of whack particularly in tackle counts and m carried.
e.g. in the most recent game against the Boks the Wallabies are shown as 409m in SANZAR (S) but 680m in Fox Sports (F) with some huge individual discrepancies. No of carries usually about the same.
Rucking Good Stats have good team data but not player data. It is usually closer to SANZAR totals than Fox Sports.

Kuridrani - F 151m; S 87m -There is NO WAY that he ran 151m agst the Boks
Hooper - F 57m; S 24m
Fardy - F 42m; S 24m
Slipper - F32m; S 11m
Foley - F 38m; S 13m
Kepu - F 29m; S 12m
McCalman - F 29m; S 14m
Simmons - F 21m; S 13m
Beale - F 10m; S Nil m

The FoxSports stats make no sense to me. SANZAR and ESPN seem OK.
FoxSpots for tackles too seem way too generous and my own tally is closer to SANZAR.

Any comments or suggestions greatly appreciated.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Would welcome some guidance on finding reliable individual player rugby stats for test matches.
There appears to be BIG discrepancies between those that are readily available.
SANZAR is generally in close agreement with ESPN Scrum stats (prob same source) but those on Fox Sports seem way out of whack particularly in tackle counts and m carried.
e.g. in the most recent game against the Boks the Wallabies are shown as 409m in SANZAR (S) but 680m in Fox Sports (F) with some huge individual discrepancies. No of carries usually about the same.
Rucking Good Stats have good team data but not player data. It is usually closer to SANZAR totals than Fox Sports.

Kuridrani - F 151m; S 87m -There is NO WAY that he ran 151m agst the Boks
Hooper - F 57m; S 24m
Fardy - F 42m; S 24m
Slipper - F32m; S 11m
Foley - F 38m; S 13m
Kepu - F 29m; S 12m
McCalman - F 29m; S 14m
Simmons - F 21m; S 13m
Beale - F 10m; S Nil m

The FoxSports stats make no sense to me. SANZAR and ESPN seem OK.
FoxSpots for tackles too seem way too generous and my own tally is closer to SANZAR.

Any comments or suggestions greatly appreciated.

Just goes to show the pitfalls in relying on stats to assess the players' involvements in a game. IMO better to simply use your own observations and impressions.

The basis for measuring some of the stats seems to be very subjective so it is not surprising there is a large variation between different collectors. For example, how is the distance run measured - from point of receipt of the ball to point of disposal, or from the gain line to point of disposal? If the stat is to have any real meaning, I prefer the latter because the distance run behind the gain line is a factor of how deep the player stands to receive the ball. Which in times past has attributed good running metres to a player like Cliff Palu when he made almost no ground at all over the gain line (not this year though when he has been a lot more effective). Could be the explanation of Beale's contribution being nil metres even though he did run sideways on a few occasions.

Much the same in tackles made. It is subjective whether a particular tackle is effective or if the first or second tackler is counted etc.

 

[KOB1987]

I'm back..

at the time of my enforced break I hadn't even seen the game and therefore couldn't properly comment on it..I have seen it now though.

How Beale became the scapegoat for that loss is beyond me..he has obviously been working on his defence and was 88% effective..his 'missed' tackle was presumably when Hendricks stepped and hurdled him and another defender, which was more a brilliant maneuvre by him than it was poor by Beale..also, he rarely got the ball in open space and therefore couldn't be accused of crabbing..he turned the ball over once, but even the well deserved MOTM Kuridrani did the same thing not long before, which hasn't even rated a mention..so it seems to me that he got the blame purely because he happened to be on the field when the wheels fell off.

It was the man he replaced who should be held responsible..when Beale replaced To'omua we were defending a 2 point lead that should have been a 20 point lead if he hadn't kicked the ball away aimlessly all night..when that lead became a 1 point deficit it is not surprising that things fell apart..the forwards had been awesome all night and the team defended brilliantly, but that moment shattered them both mentally and physically..it was a position they shouldn't have even been in.

Beale's contribution to the game was 0, To'omua's was -20.

 

[Train Without a Station]

You are absolutely off your head. A cog in the machine that was ahead is at fault?

 

[KOB1987]

you are referring to the same game? I'm talking about the game v the Springboks last Saturday night when he kicked half the ball we won straight to the opposition fullback..it wasn't just once, he did it all night. At some point I will rewatch the game and count how many times it was, maybe you should do the same..

I am a believer in MT, there is plenty to like about him, but at the moment he is shit..

 

[Train Without a Station]

Yet we were good enough to be slightly ahead when he was on the field. It may not be Beale's fault, but to blame To'omua ignores the facts.

 

[KOB1987]

my rationale is simple..if To'omua didn't kick our ball to their fullback all night we would have won..it's only my opinion of course and I can't prove it but when I got around to watching the game I was livid because of it..

 

[USARugger]

RE: the stats - I think some groups record meters based on from where the player caught the ball, while others record meters made over the gain line. At least, that seemed to be the case when I used to dig through a couple different databases.

If more of the stats houses provided concrete parameters for how they measure different aspects of the game, stats would be far more useful

 

[Train Without a Station]

Yet this only yielded a springbok resurgence once To'omua was not on the field?

 

[KOB1987]

No the Springbok resurgence was largely due to the fact that their highly experienced bench made much more impact than ours, and also because our guys were physically worn out from defending all night, a lot of which To'omua was responsible for.
My main point though was that when MT went off we should have been defending a 20 point lead, not a 2 point one.

 

[Brumby Runner]

No the Springbok resurgence was largely due to the fact that their highly experienced bench made much more impact than ours, and also because our guys were physically worn out from defending all night, a lot of which To'omua was responsible for.
My main point though was that when MT went off we should have been defending a 20 point lead, not a 2 point one.

I recommend you have a very close look at Matt Rowley's analyses of the last 10 minutes of the game on the front page. Beale was missing in action for example in the leadup to the last try except for his poor attempted pickup at the outset while both Carter and Horwill, who were also at the initial breakdown and who had been on the ground for a lot longer and had completed about 40 tackles between them, were able to get back on side at the last couple of rucks before the try was scored. And Kuridrani also made ir back to effect the tackle that prevented the try down the right hand side. Others, like Higgers and Robbo, were picked up strolling back, but Beale did not even come into the picture. Tackling is not the only element in defense. It is Beale's failure to play his role in the defensive pattern that is of most detriment to the Wallabies. For that he deserves to be considered more responsible than others and to be dropped this weekend.

 

[Wilson]

I recommend you have a very close look at Matt Rowley's analyses of the last 10 minutes of the game on the front page. Beale was missing in action for example in the leadup to the last try except for his poor attempted pickup at the outset while both Carter and Horwill, who were also at the initial breakdown and who had been on the ground for a lot longer and had completed about 40 tackles between them, were able to get back on side at the last couple of rucks before the try was scored. And Kuridrani also made ir back to effect the tackle that prevented the try down the right hand side. Others, like Higgers and Robbo, were picked up strolling back, but Beale did not even come into the picture. Tackling is not the only element in defense. It is Beale's failure to play his role in the defensive pattern that is of most detriment to the Wallabies. For that he deserves to be considered more responsible than others and to be dropped this weekend.

particularly when the guy he's replacing plays such a large role in marshalling the defence when he's on the ground.

 

[KOB1987]

I'm not defending Beale's performance, I already said his contribution was zero..all I said was it was beyond me how he was made the scapegoat for the loss..my argument was that because To'omua kicked our ball directly to the opposition fullback all night we 1) did a whole heap of defending that we otherwise wouldn't have, and 2) threw away several attacking opportunities, and because of that we were in the precarious position we shouldn't have been in when To'omua went off..I have never criticised his defence..

 

[Train Without a Station]

Well when To'omua was on we lead. When Beale came on he went missing in defence and tries were scored. Easier to score tries when there's no defence in the line.

 

[cyclopath]

It's a bit simplistic to imply there were 1 or 2 variables to account for the way the game played out, especially in the last 10 minutes.
Gagger's analysis showed there were several factors in play.
A few players did not cover themselves in glory in that period, Beale included, and it was the confluence of stuff-ups that led to at least 2 of the Bokke tries in that period. And the play of the Bokke.
To single out Beale is a bit unfair, although he played his part in it.