strategies for the tri nations

[jay-c]

thinkin abuot the reds game the obsessive kicking was painful but was obviously part of the plan to take the game away from the crusaders strength in the set piece and tire the well travelled kiwis. with a much stronger front row available to us with robinson, moore kepu etc how should we approach the games against the saffas and kiwis tactically?
another point to consider is playing cooper/ tpn kind of players to start allows us a very attacking mindset and will score tries, barnes or git with moore types allows a more conservative game plan. are we best to score the points early then close out the game? or weather the attack then bring on the tpns and coopers to score the points when the opposition tire and tey will be more effective?
or horses for courses? ie which horses for which courses?
thoughts-

 

[Swarley]

another point to consider is playing cooper/ tpn kind of players to start allows us a very attacking mindset and will score tries, barnes or git with moore types allows a more conservative game plan. are we best to score the points early then close out the game? or weather the attack then bring on the tpns and coopers to score the points when the opposition tire and tey will be more effective?

We've been playing conservatively with Moore, Barnes, Giteau et al. for a few years and we've come away largely empty-handed. The Wallabies should utilise the abundance of 'X-Factor' players they have (TNP, Cooper, JO'C, Beale, Ioane) and stick to an aggressive, attacking game-plan. Use a dual-fullback model with both Kurtley Beale and Quade Cooper directing the counter-attack and no defense in the world will stand a chance of stopping them. We can take a few chances because with our front-row starting to shine and our ball-running forwards returning from injury our set-piece won't crumble like it has in the past.

 

[redsfanatic]

We don't have a choice. We have to be attacking and choose our aggressive players because most of our conservative players aren't playing very well. One kinda conservative player I think they need though is Anthony Fainga'a. He and his game style combines much better with Quade Cooper than Giteau, Barnes, JOC (James O'Connor) and McCabe.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Deans appears to have built the squad around a style of fairly up tempo ball running and less structure. The guys selected for the Wallabies clearly reflect that, in the form of Cooper, Genia, JOC (James O'Connor) and Beale. I'm totally fine with that as a plan, so long as we have the grafters in there doing the tough stuff to make the ball available. In that form we have Sharpe, Pocock, Moore, Horwill and Elsom. Our line out is very solid these days and Pocock and Elsom are very capable at the breakdown, so all that remains is solidity in the scrum. We simply cannot have a repeat of 2007 if we are to be any chance. With that said, I think we have a better scrum than back then. The other thing though, will be to make sure that we don't get blown off the ball in the tackle, as that was the other thing that brought us undone against the Poms: they were more enthusiastic and committed greater numbers in the collision. There can be no seagulls in the pigs or we are sunk.

 

[PaarlBok]

Interesting one. Saw the Crusaders act like headless chickens trying to field the up and unders from Genia and Cooper. Thats the Bokke blue print against them under Snor.

 

[RedsHappy]

Deans appears to have built the squad around a style of fairly up tempo ball running and less structure. The guys selected for the Wallabies clearly reflect that, in the form of Cooper, Genia, JOC (James O'Connor) and Beale. I'm totally fine with that as a plan, so long as we have the grafters in there doing the tough stuff to make the ball available. In that form we have Sharpe, Pocock, Moore, Horwill and Elsom. Our line out is very solid these days and Pocock and Elsom are very capable at the breakdown, so all that remains is solidity in the scrum. We simply cannot have a repeat of 2007 if we are to be any chance. With that said, I think we have a better scrum than back then. The other thing though, will be to make sure that we don't get blown off the ball in the tackle, as that was the other thing that brought us undone against the Poms: they were more enthusiastic and committed greater numbers in the collision. There can be no seagulls in the pigs or we are sunk.

Indeed, squared. You are so very right to fully benchmark skill-for-skill Wallabies mid-2011 (or late 2010) to those of October 2007, TBH. Ensuring that we have corrected every clear deficiency so evident on that fateful day will be an important constituent of our potential for success in RWC 2011. I generally agree with your comments (just) but wise to remember our effective capitulation to the English forwards was partially echoed (though not quite as badly) in the Test match we decisively lost to England in November 2010. Our forwards were successfully stampeded by the English forwards at the breakdown that day. And we cannot say that our end-2010 scrum was more than an encouraging work-in-progress coming back from the horrors of mid 2010, and certainly not the completed, reliable article.

And the other thing: kicking! In raw factual terms, Mortlock's final missed PG (though it was way out wide) cost us that October 2007 match. That kick was not easy, but a Steyn or a Flatley would likely have nailed it. Our 2011 S15 kicking to date is way under the reliability required to be confident going into a RWC (and I am not enamoured of Gits better % tee kicking success ratio this year in S15 as (a) he may not be picked for all of all games and (b) it's proven that it's the big, high pressure Test kicks (even those in front of the posts) he struggles with, and defeat is thus stolen from the jaws of victory).

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

The England game in November does concern me, as does the regression in the scrum last year. I put the scrummaging problem down to injury mostly. Most of that same pack scrummaged very well in 2009, so I think the situation is retrievable. That and the fact that the Tahs have been very good in that part of the game this year. Enthusiasm at the breakdown and committing numbers is more of a game plan thing. The directive against teams like England has to be twofold: secure your own possession by aggressive clean out as much as possible and counter ruck like hell against them on theirs. It's not like we don't have blokes capable of doing it. The Force and Reds back fives did it very successfully this year. We don't have to be intimidated by England's big pack. The Saffers are arguably bigger and scarier and we have developed ways to handle it.

 

[Sully]

The forward pack largely picks it self but the Backs are another thing. Yes all the provinces have exceptional backs but simple picking the best and chucking them in a back line generally doesn't work. You need a balance. What scares me is Cooper, Giteau, Beale and JOC (James O'Connor) don't seem to provide balance to me. Maybe a Fainga'a type is needed? Don't crucify me just thinking out loud. the all out attacking brilliance doesn't work without a dependable work horse to do the boring stuff.

 

[qwerty51]

I honestly believe the reason we lost to England and the Boks was because of the backs' defence. They never made enough dominant tackles and their backrowers were running right over us and gave them quick ball. No size in the centres.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Genuine question: which centres should we pick to provide said size?

 

[daz]

Genuine question: which centres should we pick to provide said size?

Me and you, TBH. Let's rip it up!

 

[Sully]

Good question. We're breeding midgets!

 

[qwerty51]

Genuine question: which centres should we pick to provide said size?

Either size or pick those who can make dominant tackles. Rob Horne mainly, obviously Fainga'a but he's too limited in attack.

I've seen McCabe make a few dominant tackles. Not JOC (James O'Connor) or AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper). Yes I've seen JOC (James O'Connor) dump some players but I've seen him get dumped making tackles too.

 

[Sully]

How about more limited in attack.

 

[Godfrey]

I don't think AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is at all a bad defender and he makes some very good dominant tackles.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Me and you, TBH. Let's rip it up!

You know it Bro. I'm certainly the right weight

 

[qwerty51]

I don't think AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is at all a bad defender and he makes some very good dominant tackles.

But it clearly didn't work last year. Don't you think something has to change? We had some success but we lost against the Kiwis 3 times, Boks once and England twice. In those losses I can still remember Clarkie going on about Wallabies falling off first up tackles and how easy the opposition got over the ad. line.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Either size or pick those who can make dominant tackles. Rob Horne mainly, obviously Fainga'a but he's too limited in attack.

I've seen McCabe make a few dominant tackles. Not JOC (James O'Connor) or AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper). Yes I've seen JOC (James O'Connor) dump some players but I've seen him get dumped making tackles too.

So it's not all about size then. Big does not a good defender make. I don't know where the perception that AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is no good in defence comes from. He looked pretty serviceable to me last year. I could come at McCabe or Ant at 13 with the right 12 playing alongside them. That person would be someone who could pass and preferably kick.

My consistent choice at 12 has been Barnes, but the poor bugger is crook. He passes, tackles brilliantly, takes good options and has a great boot. I still believe that AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is our best all round option at 13.

 

[Lee Grant]

Yes all the provinces have exceptional backs but simple picking the best and chucking them in a back line generally doesn't work. You need a balance. What scares me is Cooper, Giteau, Beale and JOC (James O'Connor) don't seem to provide balance to me. Maybe a Fainga'a type is needed? Don't crucify me just thinking out loud. the all out attacking brilliance doesn't work without a dependable work horse to do the boring stuff.

A very astute comment - I was going to write something somewhere to that effect. Tom Carter is the Tahs A. Finger and he goes OK except on this forum. That argues against my case that Anthony's 2nd chance to start in a big test match should not come in a RWC year but I wouldn't be too surprised if it did.

 

[Groucho]

We don't have a choice. We have to be attacking and choose our aggressive players because most of our conservative players aren't playing very well. One kinda conservative player I think they need though is Anthony Fainga'a. He and his game style combines much better with Quade Cooper than Giteau, Barnes, JOC (James O'Connor) and McCabe.

I'm sure I've read this 39 times.