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Super Rugby - I am bored

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Train Without a Station

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Unless referees consistently favour the attacking team rather than the defending team (I mean in 50/50 situations) and focus on giving the attacking team an opportunity to recycle the ball it will remain in a poor state.

Opportunities will remain for counter rucking and pilfering as it did back in 2011. There needs to be a primary incentive for attack though. People come to watch attack more than they do pilfering.
 

Blue

Andrew Slack (58)
I also think there is an onus on the players because the level of infringement at the ruck is getting ridiculous but if the ref is not taking control it becomes a free for all. Players are pitching their tents behind the opposition's last feet.
 
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Sidbarret

Fred Wood (13)
I totally agree.

I won't lie, the poor performance of the South African sides (especially the stormers) aren't helping, but it is more than that.

Firstly the season is too long. There are too few make or break games. A resurgent Crusaders played a classy Chiefs side over the weekend, but the in the greater context of the comp the result doesn't seem to matter all that much to neutrals. It just feels like the tournament is going to meander forth until the last three or so weeks when the different permutations begin to crystallise.

Secondly the way the games are being refereed is undermining the quality of the actual games played. Again there are two problems.

Firstly referees are making way too many errors and these errors are too often deciding outcome of games.

Secondly the referees are way to lax in applying the rules of the game and it isn't even leading to less penalties being awarded it only means that bits between penalties are more of a mess and the penalties that are being given seem random given the offences that are being ignored.
 

WorkingClassRugger

David Codey (61)
I assume you're just taking the piss although you seem to be prone to personal attacks when you have little else to add which seems to be the norm.

I have been clear many a time as to my expectations of the Bulls season.

My post is completely general. I used to enjoy watching almost every game regardless of who is playing.

It's just not a good way to spend time any more. Most of it is just shit, whether the Bulls win or lose is immaterial.

Can anyone here seriously suggest that they really enjoy watching a derby from another country and watch it uninterrupted? I would be very surprised.

Someone hit the nail on the head when they said that Heineken Cup stays interesting because the pools change every year.


Of course I was taking the piss. Even though type is a difficult medium in which to translate the context of what's said it was pretty obvious.

As for the personal attacks. What the hell are you talking about? Mate, do yourself a favour. Develop a thicker skin? Jeez.

Oh and I watch derbies involving teams from other countries.
 

BeastieBoy

Herbert Moran (7)
Australian Crowds for Rugby have been dropping steadily for years. The ARU have concentrated on the top end and never had a bottom up strategy. The NRC is about the 200k licence fee per team to the ARU, nothing else. Unless the NRC radically changes the rules to rid us of the scrum and penalty blight its doomed. The shute shield should have the same changes. We control those comps.The shute shield needs a leader within to lift that comp. Super Rugby is on the way out.
 

BDA

Peter Johnson (47)
From my point of view, I've enjoyed the comp this year. In fact, I've found the Aussie derbies to be on the whole much more engaging than the past 2 years. Tahs v Force, Reds v Force, Brumbies v Tahs and Brumbies v Rebels were all highly entertaining. In years past I did not look forward to the aussie conference, but this year they have been generally pretty good. I put that down to the competitive nature of our pool. All 5 teams are capable of beating each other on their day.

Blue - i think your observations that the competition is boring this season is surely at least in part because your South African. The South African conference is surprisingly poor this year. Until now it hasn't been competitive and the derbies (of which I have watched all but 2) have been almost wholly uneventful - save for a really good win for the Lions in the first game of round 1). The only team that is really having a great season is the Sharks, and even the most die hard Sharks' fans will agree they aren't playing an exciting brand of rugby.

The Kiwi conference has been great, as it always is.
 

Blue

Andrew Slack (58)
BDA
Fair enough I will be looking at the comp from an SA perspective. However, what brought me to the conclusion is how I am far less enthused by the rest of the games. I am a rugby fan first and foremost. I have taken as much enjoyment from attending premiership games in the UK as I have from watching Super rugby. It's rugby and it gets my adrenaline flowing.

I have religiously watched as many games as possible. I record them all every weekend and have for years and if there is time through the week I would watch the ones I did not see live.

Like I said, I am a total tragic. I'll watch any rugby. My enthusiasm for Super Rugby has taken a dive which is pretty tragic.
 

Richo

John Thornett (49)
Every team does it. When Dennis was sent off in Durban the Tah time wasting was some of the worst Ive ever seen. The Kiwi teams are even worse. Refs need to be brave and penalize immediately for time wasting.

Another area where the yellow card needs to be used is immediately after a card has been already issued. How many times have we seen a card in the red zone and withing minutes the same team infringes again and it's just a penalty. Card another guy right away and teams will wake up.

Agree 100%.

Wasn't singling out the Bulls, just that it was the most recent example.
 

spikhaza

John Solomon (38)
Can someone explain to me why the Top 14 is thriving? Every game I have ever seemed to watch has absolutely 0 desire to score tries and seems to be some high school english metaphor for watching a bunch of people slowly eat KFC
 

Blue

Andrew Slack (58)
Can someone explain to me why the Top 14 is thriving? Every game I have ever seemed to watch has absolutely 0 desire to score tries and seems to be some high school english metaphor for watching a bunch of people slowly eat KFC
Whilst there is some truth top the games being boring the comp also serves up some awesome rugby if the likes of Clermont and Toulouse get going. When Toulon hit their straps they are impressive to watch. The French love an arm wrestle. They love a try like the rest of us but a tackle can draw as much of a roar from the crowd as try.

Not that knowledgeable other than what I see on Eurosport and the one live game I have been to, but the teams have private ownership. They spend a lot on marketing but the supporter base is really tribal. Way more so than anything we are used to in the Southern Hemisphere. And there is some SERIOUS hate between a lot of them.

The French like to socialise around the rugby so the Saturday afternoon and evening is a whole affair of going out, having lunch, going to the game and then going out for drinks / dinner. I went to a game in Marseilles years ago and it was a very enjoyable experience.

Maybe the expectation of the game is different? Paris Tah is the guy to ask.
 

Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
the supporter base is really tribal. Way more so than anything we are used to in the Southern Hemisphere. And there is some SERIOUS hate between a lot of them.


Right there - from talking to people who have been there for a game, the build up is completely feral. Away wins for any team are extremely rare and the entire community is into the game.

They are fans in the sense that they are FANaticS - they have the generational support bred into them. And the hatred as Blue says above. Its not something you can build overnight, and private ownership helps.
 
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mst

Peter Johnson (47)
Right there - from talking to people who have been there for a game, the build up is completely feral. Away wins for any team are extremely rare and the entire community is into the game.

They are fans in the sense that they are FANaticS - they have the generational support bred into them. And the hatred as Blue says above. Its not something you can build overnight, and private ownership helps.

I wonder if the fact that the clubs are privately owned and devoid of the bullshit politics, committees, power hungry status driven elitist and old boys and instead its simple community based inclusive rugby that appeals to a huge demographic and promotes social interaction, community spirit which in turn makes it an event every weekend!
 

Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
It certainly does remove the complications when you have one guy calling the shots. Which is why so many corporations are fucked places to work - dickhead gatekeepers, meetings, and nothing approaching real work.

If you have the nerve to do some actual work and achieve something without the oversight of whatever committee or change governance is in place, you're seen as some sort of disruptive influence.

What it boils down to is some management prick is incensed that they missed out on the recognition for your hard work.
 

mst

Peter Johnson (47)
I think the other part of it is simply business, and we can learn some lessons from others in the "sports / entertainment" business. If its your business the pressure is on you to make it a success. That means getting the right people and the right culture, especially when your business relies on getting bums on seat and then people in front of TVs. You have to engage with the community and give them a product not only that they want, but can identify with and be a part of - on their terms! HELLO SANZAR AND THE ARU!

You do have to be careful as the AFL are discovering with their ticketing model that is complex and off putting to the majority of fans and has caused some members to pay for tickets while others haven't had to pay to attend the same game.

Innovation and marketing are key, and so is thinking outside the square. Here is an example of what you do with 165,000 seat (yes that many) when there are no cars to make people dizzy.

http://www.bristolmotorspeedway.com...source=rdr&utm_medium=web&utm_campaign=battle

For the sceptics who will go on about population differences etc - The MCG (Melbourne Cricket Ground), Australia had 121,696 for the 1970 Australian Rules Football grand final in 1970 between Carlton and Collingwood.
 

Bardon

Peter Fenwicke (45)
There's still a lot of politics in French rugby. It's just that in Europe our major rugby teams tend to be part OF the community instead of just being IN the community as a new franchise tends to be.

Look at the new franchises up north, they also struggle to attract the level of support that the traditional club/provincial sides do. It takes a long time before a team is considered genuinely part of a community.

It's something that's built up over generations not just mere years. Where the baton is passed from father/mother to son/daughter because the club actually means something to the people of the community outside of match day.

We're talking about clubs with over 100 years of history that have been around through countless tragedies and good times. That have bleed and cried with the people because they are the people.

Where pubs and businesses are owned by ex-players. Where that old guy who cuts the grass where a junior team play used to run out for Munster/Perpignan/Leicester.

Players, ex-players, coaches, officials etc. do huge amounts of work in the community to maintain that link and build it up further. Years upon years of this leads to a situation where it's very difficult to tell where the club ends and the community begins.

You can't create that kind of history with a snazzy name and a shinny marketing strategy. It's the kind of history that's soaked into the earth of the entire community and into the bones of it's people.

I know so many Munster fans who plan their entire year around away trips in the HEC. Where tickets to away QF, SF games are like gold dust and a ticket for the final is something on par with the worth of your firstborn (the relative value determined by the ultimate result).

Match day becomes an event in itself. Sometimes it's what gets you over a shitty week at work or it's the trip you've been looking forward to all year. The mixing with the fans of the other team in the pubs, the songs, the banter, the slagging, the hatred of local rivals, but at the end of it all it's all goodhearted and you can sit down and have a drink with a rugby fan of any team without fear of football like loutishness.

We don't switch over because the game is "shit-house" with not a try to be seen for love nor money with a score of 9-6. We watch on the edge of our seats/barstools for every last second. Every awarding of a penalty inspiring near heart attacks or relief of a tension that's so thick you could cut it with a knife, depending on which arm the ref raises.

To most of us up north rugby isn't a shirt to be put on of a game day. Something that can be easily changed from AFL, Football, NRL or w/e else. No rugby is simple something that you are, it's part of your being.

Yes we also follow other sports, you'll find many a Corkman who's a huge Munster fan but also a Man Utd fan and wears his Cork jersey come all-Ireland time. I myself am a Leinster fan along with a lifelong Evertonian and Dublin fan. But I never seen it as a choice.

To rugby fans up here (at least those from the established clubs/provinces) it's not a form of entertainment that we can take or leave depending on the quality of the product on offer. It's much more than that, it's like a member of family. It provides moments of unbridled joy when the rest of the world has gone to shit, it moves you to tears, you sulk and are depressed after a loss, especially if it's to a rival or in the knock-out stage of the HEC.

It frustrates the hell out of you at times. Yes there are times you wish it were better but like any member of the family it's capable of producing those near perfect moments when all the complaining is forgotten. Just like any family member we may not always like it but we never stop loving it.

Overall it's a sense that the club/province actually give a shit about their community and we the community give it back in spades.

That's what NH rugby is all about, at least to me anyway.
 

ACT Crusader

Jim Lenehan (48)
One of the great things about French T14 that I've noticed is that despite some dour performances there always seems to be 'atmosphere' at the games.

It's probably a combination of fan base and culture. The Currie Cup games seem to have it as well.

Whereas in NZ and OZ the crowds tend to watch rather than sing, chant or make consistent noise.
 

Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
Fo sho.

Try starting a rugby chant at a Tahs game? I'd get less weird looks if I sprouted horns
 

mst

Peter Johnson (47)
One of the great things about French T14 that I've noticed is that despite some dour performances there always seems to be 'atmosphere' at the games.

It's probably a combination of fan base and culture. The Currie Cup games seem to have it as well.

Whereas in NZ and OZ the crowds tend to watch rather than sing, chant or make consistent noise.


True, but some of you Kiwis have cow bells!

Being born and bread in AFL land I recognise and identify with Bardons words as AFL (VFL) clubs have similar histories, cultures, and are enmeshed with the community.

I only found the game of rugby later and fell in love with it also, but one thing is clear here in OZ to an outside which is overlooked, the class issue. The game still is yet to shake its "British" heritage as an game played by the upper-class or the more learned. It may only be a perception but it prevents it being part of the community and for the "common" man. Thus why many identify better with the working class League.

It's something rugby needs to dispel and eradicate to stop support for each code being divided by social or economic status.

@ ACT Crusader - any ideas how we can breath some life into fans and maybe get a song or two?
 
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