Sydney Junior Rugby Union - 2013

[Hugh Jarse]

In the older age groups (in particular) you see a few boys from "other districts" running around with non-organic teams, but not too many.

Nothing against in in the Rules. They just need relevant clearances from the gaining and losing District Presidents. Most Presidents will readily sign clearances if the kid has tried for their normal district and not been selected, or the normal district is not entering a team.

While Gordon may have surplus players of rep quality, many districts seem to be too "proud" to call on those surplus to requirements.

To be fair, many of the potential receiving Districts don't know the standard of the possible transferee players until too late and they have already had their own trials and selected their team. If kids tried out for other districts too early, there would be all sorts of calls about poaching and stacking teams.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Those Gordon Juniors numbers from Druid are like a Scale model of the Solar System with Gordon representing Jupiter, Wests = Mercury and Easts = Earth.

Sad to see all the trouble Gordon are having retaining talent into their Colts programme.

There are plenty of Gordon kids lost to the High School system during the U13 - U17 years, never to register again with their former Junior District.

Gordon Committee have identified that they need to reverse this trend as a priority to rebuilt their Colts and Grade numbers.

 

[Druid]

In the older age groups (in particular) you see a few boys from "other districts" running around with non-organic teams, but not too many.

Nothing against in in the Rules. They just need relevant clearances from the gaining and losing District Presidents. Most Presidents will readily sign clearances if the kid has tried for their normal district and not been selected, or the normal district is not entering a team.

While Gordon may have surplus players of rep quality, many districts seem to be too "proud" to call on those surplus to requirements.

To be fair, many of the potential receiving Districts don't know the standard of the possible transferee players until too late and they have already had their own trials and selected their team. If kids tried out for other districts too early, there would be all sorts of calls about poaching and stacking teams.

Looking at the State Championship Booklet, even a number of the younger age-groups had non-organic teams.

Under 11s West Harbour (No Parramatta Team)
Under 12s West Harbour, Parramatta & Penrith
Under 13s Penrith, (No West Harbour)
Under 14s Penrith, Parramatta (No West Harbour)

I know that in the case of some of the Parramatta teams trials were not required as it was a struggle just to get 15 players from the district. Calls were made to other districts to try and get enough players to form a team, which sometimes got players and sometimes not, which meant some rep teams played the entire weekend with only 17 players or less (after injuries etc).

 

[BeastieBoy]

where are we going to play in Paddington?..Bondi, Bays and Mcauley are all based around our home ground at Woollahra. Alot of the juniors already come from Paddo,Bronte and further. The club is strong at a club level but week at rep level where you are right about our number of clubs to choose from.
What you are suggesting is new clubs based at Paddo. Surry Hills etc. Great idea but a massive set up cost etc.
The rep situation will be solved via more clubs as above or a merger at a rep level with another district like Norths or Randwick to become competitve.
There is nothing to stop kids from the areas mentioned getting to Woollahra or lyne park now to play with the existing clubs and unfortunately its hard enough to get oval space anywhere.
Love to see a club based near Moore park to feed the junior,colts at Beastie land and I'm sure if you started proceedings then the powers at be would be happy to help but its a big job.
Ask the Breakers guys. It is still a very young club .6 years?

 

[BeastieBoy]

Scaraby I agree with the issues and difficulties raised. Unfortunately the Beasts don't have a pure Friday night team. So I had to join a Randwick club. I'm now out of necessity sowing the seeds that he eventually goes with his new mates to join colts at the Wicks. The people are great of course, but not what I would have dreamed would happen.

 

[BeastieBoy]

The idea of merger just says to me that we are shrinking and going backwards. We need as a code to make a stand and say how can we grow our juniors. We grow them by having a strong club competition. The ARU or the Shute presidents need to resolve that and find the best model. Then if that model can be successful then money may be around to expand our juniors. In the meantime the competition from other codes for juniors continue.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Scaraby I agree with the issues and difficulties raised. Unfortunately the Beasts don't have a pure Friday night team. So I had to join a Randwick club. I'm now out of necessity sowing the seeds that he eventually goes with his new mates to join colts at the Wicks. The people are great of course, but not what I would have dreamed would happen.

I'd be surprised if that Friday night comp will continue to be available: one of mine did exactly what you're talking about but the private schools and the Bunnies (and Friday night traffic) and lack of teams to play put an end by end of u 13s after a 4 team comp ( one team was booted for playing overage players).

 

[Gary Owen III]

In the older age groups (in particular) you see a few boys from "other districts" running around with non-organic teams, but not too many.

Nothing against in in the Rules. They just need relevant clearances from the gaining and losing District Presidents. Most Presidents will readily sign clearances if the kid has tried for their normal district and not been selected, or the normal district is not entering a team.

While Gordon may have surplus players of rep quality, many districts seem to be too "proud" to call on those surplus to requirements.

To be fair, many of the potential receiving Districts don't know the standard of the possible transferee players until too late and they have already had their own trials and selected their team. If kids tried out for other districts too early, there would be all sorts of calls about poaching and stacking teams.

Do you really think that districts allow "pride" to factor into allowing players from another district to take the place of a player from within their own district?

Surely districts have a responsibility to create the pathway for their own players first rather than giving preference to discarded players from Gordon etc (regardless of ability).

And most Districts have already had trials and selected teams by the time that Gordon has made their final selections - Other districts cant sit on their hands and wait for Gordon to finish their process before they start selecting their own teams.

Gordon could field two competitive sides in every age group. And if the rumours about Penrith possibly being removed from the Shute Shield are correct - we could see the situation where a junior District team (Penrith) has no senior club to affiliate with. If this is the case should we be looking to revive Hornsby District and breaking up the size of Gordon?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Maybe pride is not the correct word to describe the reluctance by districts to take outsiders (who may be skilled players in their own right) into their team at a very late stage in the selection process (when the outsiders district has decided that they either do no have the numbers for their won team or the lad wasn't selected in the final squad for State Champs for his organic district).

Maybe the revised Junior Gold Cup structure will be one to follow for the future where they pick up all the "rep standard" players even if their Juniors District has a surplus.

 

[Druid]

I believe a re-distribution of the districts would be well worth looking at (it will never happen due to the politics involved) as it would mean more competitive districts in the Juniors and would also assist in the growth of the mini's. e.g. In some districts an under 8's competition might only consist of 4-5 teams with 2 of those coming from 1 club. Hardly a good structure to promote the game and provide a good development framework for the kids.

Just as an example of the lopsided nature of the districts:

Parramatta: 4 * U10 Teams (3 clubs)

2 * U11 Teams (2 clubs)​

1 * U12 Team (1 club)​

Penrith: 2 * U10 Teams (2 clubs)

2 * U11 Teams (2 clubs)​

1 * U12 Team (1 club)​

Gordon: 19 * U10 Teams (7 clubs)

20 * U11 Teams (8 clubs)​

13 * U12 Teams (8 clubs)​

Eastwood 6 * U10 Teams (4 clubs)

7 * U11 Teams (5 clubs)​

4 * U12 Teams (3 clubs)​

​

How is it possible to create a competitive tournament when Gordon (and other districts) have 20 teams to choose from and others have 2?

​

 

[Gary Owen III]

Maybe pride is not the correct word to describe the reluctance by districts to take outsiders (who may be skilled players in their own right) into their team at a very late stage in the selection process (when the outsiders district has decided that they either do no have the numbers for their won team or the lad wasn't selected in the final squad for State Champs for his organic district).

Maybe the revised Junior Gold Cup structure will be one to follow for the future where they pick up all the "rep standard" players even if their Juniors District has a surplus.

I take your point that it isn't necessarily "Pride" - but as districts should have a responsibility to their own clubs and player pathway first, the only second chance avenue is those districts that cannot field a full squad. Districts such as Eastwood wouldn't consider a Gordon discard over one of their own, yet West Harbour rely on these players to assist their Rep programs.

Re Junior Gold Cup - As i understand it this will not impact the State Champs as it is held in Feb/Mar. And if they identify the Rep talent it still wont mean the that if flows through to various State Champ Districts. ie they might identify 30 kids within Gordon worthy of being in the Gold Squad - at least 7 of these wont make a Gordon Rep team for State Champs. Eastwood, Warringah and Norths will most likely stick loyal to their own district players meaning these kids either go searching at Easts or Wests or miss out.

I don't see a restructure happening for all the various reasons already stated - but maybe there should at least be some co-ordination between these districts with "excess" players of Rep standard (Gordon in particular, but in some years Eastwood, Norths etc) that they pick their sides earlier to enable the weaker districts a chance to give these extra players a look in.

 

[Man on the hill]

ANY GF results to speaks of?

 

[BeastieBoy]

I'd like to open up the topic of the benefits to juniors of doing more than one code. My son played in his AFL GF and in a 60 minute game were smashed 110 to 10. Why? Because a good number of the other team also played league and union. The Swans Academy for juniors have recognized this and are replacing many of their members with leagies from the Souths Juniors comp. In the rugby games you can see the benefits that AFL have bought to some kids in respect to the depth of their kicks and how they can put it on a ten cent piece. In rugby you can see the benefit of league training in their tackling and straight running. So where am I going with this? We should schedule our training and games to allow kids to do multiple codes for as long as they can. This will result in a more talented pool of players for our juniors. Sure one may go to the swans. But we will gain a lot more out of it.

 

[I like to watch]

Most clubs schedule training sessions for each team,as access is limited.
In situations where oval access is flexible, it's still impossible to suit every player/family.
Suggesting that it's feasible for the organisers of each division of Rugby to liaise with AFL,soccer,League and 3 different Schools Associations to allow "cross pollination" is just fanciful.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

And I have seen the very same souths juniors schedule training to stop kids playing rugby

 

[Paddogreen]

ANY GF results to speaks of?

I heard Hunters Hill won 13a, 14a and 15a. Well done, strong club.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I heard Hunters Hill won 13a, 14a and 15a. Well done, strong club.

I think Chatswood won 15A

 

[Jaghond]

Correct, IS

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Correct, IS

I think you just blew your cover

 

[Jaghond]

IS, No problem from my end....

A mates son was in the team, and he was happy to recount the battle over a quiet ale later in the day....and thankfully no complaints about anything !

Sounded like a pretty tight match, though, and to the victors go the plaudits....and quite rightly so.

Hopefully, most of the boys - from both teams - will turn out for their club teams next year.

It will be interesting to watch what transpires......