Discussion in 'Subbies Rugby' started by Rugby Central, Oct 17, 2013.
Is that a factor of your domicile?
That would depend whether you mean my household or my nation
Any news on the Drummoyne situation?
early mail is
Div 1 9 team comp with Brothers going up. 1 team to have a bye each week.
Div 2 Hills have the option to come up to make it a 8 team comp. St ives/oatley down to 3rd Div.
Div 3 and lower still to be decided.
So no demotion for Drummoyne then??
Don't think Subbies will risk destabilising their top division just yet.
Unfortunately, I just don't see anything changing in terms of payments. Paper bags, seconds sets of books, and other financial incentives can be hidden too easily.
The new integrity officer will definitely have his hands full with some of the clubs in Div 1 next year.
Moving back to the Illawarra comp seems like a good move for Campbelltown. They've been toing and froing on this for a few years now, and all their reasons make a lot of sense.
Completely agree, Campbelltown have performed very well for a team with big demands on travel and the fact a lot of the guys play league on Sundays. Better to keep the guys in Union in another comp then lose them all together.
The integrity officer seems like someone who will frighten off some clubs from payments but the big ones wont change their ways. Will this officer have the authority to audit an individual..I doubt it. Suddenly the girlfriends rent will be getting paid for.
What will it mean for teams that bring players over from other countries offering accommodation and incentives? I know Knox Old Boys have done this?
Apparently St Ives have already been informed by subbies they are going down to DIV 3 next year however Oatley have not. Does anyone have any inside knowledge? Looks like Brothers up and Saints down. Remaining 8 teams to make up Div 2.
Gut feel is that Newport will be promoted to DIV 1. They have turned the ship around due to the hard work of a new president and his committee. They are cashed up and will do well in Div 1. Not sure how they will fair with the new amatuer status of subbies if you get my drift.
1. If promoted, Newport and the Brothers Clubs should be granted a one season exemption from the amateur regime so that they can establish themselves in Division 1. I think this happens for promoted clubs to the English Premier League.
The exemption should be an agreed $ ceiling with all player contracts registered with Subbies.
Otherwise the promoted clubs would face the prospect of recruitment and retention difficulties and a battle to stave off relegation.
Further I agree with suggestion that Sutherland Cup competition has reached it use by date. Surplus players could go to Halligan Cup.
2. A lot of people don't realise a Shute Shield players come to Subbies are discards and at end of their career. Money is not the sole factor, it helps, but they come because they are time poor. Family, work and other commitments now make 1 or 2 nights Subbies training more attractive than Shute Shield training commitments. And the opportunity to play first team football is still more attractive than relegation to the lower grades of the Shute Shield clubs.
3. Any thoughts?
You're dead right about point 2 - when Brothers started picking up bokes from Gordon like Vinnie Byrne, there was talk of buckets of money going around. But I spoke to one of their guys, and while he didn't confirm nor deny the money, he did say that Vinnie was sick of busting his arse for SS sides and getting little out of it on a personal level. Subbies works out much better for them.
Any word on the Div 1 comp structure, the latest I have heard is that it will be 8 teams only.
This is of course would mean Brothers stay in Div 2
Yes I know that there definitely won't be 10 teams next year. It will either be 9 or 8. Brothers are definitely coming up but there still has been no decision on the future of Drummoyne.
The board are meeting tonight to make a decision on Drummoyne, they will either be deregistered or kept in 1st Division with serious sanctions placed on them for next season. They have threatened to deregister them for the last few weeks but I think it will end at that - threats.
I personally will not shed a tear if Drummoyne are shut down but it would be shame for such a proud club with a rich history.
My mistake I assumed that Brothers wouldn't be coming up. I didn't realise the depth of the poo that Drummoyne are in.
Is it related the red cards only or are there "other" issues?
It is related to the red cards (13 or 14 I think they finished on) and the club's attitude towards it. Apparently nothing was done to fix the discipline issues as they didn't see it as a serious problem.
I remember playing in the mid 90s after they'd been punted to 6th div and had 1 team. It would be an absolute travesty to shut them down and would further convince me that subbies are not in the business of growing the game. Fine the B@stards enough so it hurts and helps the bottom line of subbies.
Well, they've already pissed away thousands in fines for repeated red cards. And if they're unapologetic about it as everyone says, then clearly money isn't hurting them.
Forcing them down to Div 2 will just make them revenge smash everyone there, so there is only one solution left:
Division 1 = The Haves. Clubs with money who want to pay players. Make it three grades + Colts and damn the torpedoes. Anything goes. Unleash the dogs of indiscriminate finance! Rego fees per team with Subbies are proportionately higher, as are fines and sanctions.
Div 2 and lower = The Have Nots. Clubs who want to play for the sake of competitive rugby, and not swinging dicks at each other. Keep the 4 Grades if you must as a maximum, but MUST HAVE Colts as appropriate.
Drummoyne do have a lot of cash, as I understand they sold their club, invested the money and live off the interest.
As shown by the GF fine, a monetary penalty doesn't appear to have any impact.
Having been involved in Rugby since 1966 I totally agree with your proposal for Div 1 and Div 2 and the lower Divisions.
This makes sense because it recognises the reality of the situation.
An aspirational club in Subbies Div 1 has no where else to go unless you're a Campbelltown or Hornsby who have left Subbies.
Trying to promote Rugby in Sydney Western Suburbs in competition with Soccer, Aussie Rules and League is not easy.
Initiatives like creating a junior club and running an efficient seniors ( with some money involved for attracting special first team players) is now considered a criminal offence to be audited by the Integrity Officer and an integrity committee of 5 lawyer / auditor types.
The reality is that there is a gap between Div 1 and the other Divisions for a reason. Stable administration is essential in recruitment though the promise of payment to good players is a factor.
One of the major reasons Footballers choose Subbies over Shute Shield clubs is because they do not have unlimited time to devote to Rugby.
The Subbies amateur regime is a way of encouraging and rewarding mediocrity and punishing the well run Club.
This self destruct operates from ARU down.
So much for helping the grass roots. Have not seen any help for grassroots Rugby from ARU since the Bundaberg Rum goal post pads appeared after WRC in 2003.
It remains a great game that has survived despite the mostly uninspiring leadership over the past 140 years.
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