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Tahs vs Stormers

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Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
Careful now - that is naza's recommended coach you're talking about. The guy who is so much better than Link.

No wait, the cattle aren't there or something right naz? :)


Blue said:
The usually dominant Tahs scrum has failed to get acendancy for two weeks running. It's not quite clear to me why, but the refs have nothing to do with it.

Haven't seen the game yet but can comment on the Reds game: The Tah's scrum was easily better there, but Joubert let the Reds step around the corner way too much. Which doesn't surprise me as he must have missed the session on scrum training.

Blue is right about the new scrum rulings though - heck I saw someone get penalised for not doing a "touch"!
 
P

PhucNgo

Guest
TheRiddler said:
Absolutely woeful. Totally devoid of a game plan. Unfortunately its looks as though Hickey as learnt nothing from his first year and is just proving that he is nothing more than an average club rugby coach.

Whilst I thought the ref was a strange old chap, the extra long pauses at his scrum calls are part of the new refereeing directive. If you watched the Bulls v Brumbies match beforehand, Lawrence also utilised the pauses but because of his player management skills and experience, was able to be a lot more effective (plus Alexander had a woeful night and collapsed at every opportunity making it easy to give penalties).

Mowen was the only positive from the Tahs performance. Waugh's captaincy was abysmal and set a very poor standard for the team. Whilst Hickey develops the overall game plan, it is up to Waugh to adjust things on the field as required. He seemed more intent on upping the niggle plus forgetting about the new tackle-release directive. When he got the slap from that Stormers tiny winger, he should have just walked away but chose to carry on. Poor form.

Agree that Turner looked OK. Where where the inside backs in the first half. Dont think Carter touched the ball once. And when he did get the pill in the second half, he didnt do a great deal to subdue the detractors on this forum. Hopefully Horne can start next week and actually run some creative outside centre lines.

Though that Dud was just that, exemplified by his first off appalling lineout reception. Good Tahs attacking opportunity, clean take from the Dud and then he just drops the pill.

All up, very concerned that the more things change, the more they stay the same. Time for a few people to step up or time for a major personnel change starting at the top.

I don't think that this was actually Alexander's problem. My take was that he was victim to one of the two new developments inspired by the law interpretations. The first one is that some props are not committing on the hit and thereby causing their opponent to over stretch, hence the collapsing. This happened to Alexander a lot. It was also prevalent in the Hurricanes match. Very cute because its much harder to detect than actually moving backwards on the hit. The second thing I noticed at the weekend was that some canny players were actually holding defenders in the ruck i.e not allowing them to roll away. Doesn't take them long does it.

And speaking of new law interpretations, can someone please remind the refs that a scrum feed needs to be down the middle of the tunnel b/w the two front rows, not down the middle of the channel b/w the open side lock and flanker.
 

Bruce Ross

Ken Catchpole (46)
Scarfman said:
Alexander again? Assuming you all mean Baxter.

I think that TheRiddler's rather subtle point was that had Alexander been there he would have "had a woeful night and collapsed at every opportunity "; whereas PhucNgo is suggesting that had Alexander been there and the scrum was collapsing at every opportunity, it wouldn't have been his fault because of the other prop "not committing on the hit".

Probably a bit metaphysical for the rest of us, but it certainly reinforces the point that rugby is a very cerebral game.
 

PaarlBok

Rod McCall (65)
Bruce Ross said:
PhucNgo is suggesting that had he been there and the scrum was collapsing at every opportunity, it wouldn't have been his fault because of the other prop "not committing on the hit".
English is JC and Broks second language. If the Aussies cant understand engage, they sure wont. The Stormers best scrumming is still on its way when Blaauw gets back but I'd think Proudfoot has done wonders with our scrum in a years time.
 

TheRiddler

Dave Cowper (27)
Scarfman said:
Alexander again? Assuming you all mean Baxter.

I was comparing Lawrence's job of conducting the scrums in the Brumbies v Bulls game vs the kiwi refs job in the Tahs v Stormers game. In the former, there were still the long pauses between each command yet the scrums were steadier and had less resets apart from when Alexander didnt get his binding on and did his folding card impression for which he was rightly penalised. In the later game, neither of the packs seemed to have any regard for the refs call and were just doing things the way they always had.
 

Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
Yes if we all try reading TheRiddler's post instead of just the names we might all get on better, hmm? :)
 

TheRiddler

Dave Cowper (27)
NTA said:
Yes if we all try reading TheRiddler's post instead of just the names we might all get on better, hmm? :)

I love youse all!! (especially you Nick, you're my favourite although Naza isnt that far behind)

I dont think I've been flamed on this board yet - or if I have I've either been too stupid to realise or its been too subtle for my limited brain cells. Must try harder :lmao:
 

Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
First impressions of the game as below.

I love how South Africans sex their game up - its great and we need more of it over here.
 

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Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
Fuck. First play of the game says it all: we're hot on attack and then we dither because Barnes and Beale are otherwise involved. Ludicrous play.
 

Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
If I had a couple complaints to make about Mr Brown - and its not in favour of either team, but :

1) He appears to be applying the NRI and forgetting about some of the other ruck rules. A couple of times in the game he's had a defender clearly not supporting their own weight. At one stage I think the young #7 for the Stormers (Louw?) is flummoxed by a decision that a few minutes before went his way in exactly the same circumstances. I accept that the player is the first man at his feet to arrive and has all the rights, but by putting your elbows on the ground (for example) you aren't on your feet, therefore you've no right to the ball. Similarly, players coming into the ruck to clean out and going immediately off their feet - one minute he canes you, next he doesn't. Hard to know where to draw the line when the ref isn't consistent.

2) He's just a teensy-tiny bit of a completely fucking pedantic, scrag whore's donut-punching syphilitic bastard son at scrum time. I do understand why and I do wish the Tahs' props would have put their fucking brains into gear and LISTEN for the calls. When he says "touch", you fucking touch. When he says "pause", you fucking Pause. When he says "engage" you FUCKING HIT THE fluffybunny AND NOT A SECOND BEFORE!!!

He's one of the best refs of a maul I've ever seen at this level though. He knows when its stopped, and he tells the players to get their shit together and start moving it again. He also forgot to penalise players for tackles up around the neck, though these were largely harmless.

But jeez the number of times the Tahs are isolating themselves is disgraceful. Their lack of commitment and passion is damning on Hickey's coaching style. What kind of culture does the place have that these guys can't bar up for playing for the best state in Australia?

Have to say that Baxter was shocking in the open play and not much better at scrum time. Might be time to put Palmer back in for a couple of games.

However it does beg the question of why the scrum did not dominate. Rookie lock Douglas is part of my theory - the binding just wasn't good enough and you could see it in the 52nd minute where the scrum sort of tenses up and then collapses on the Stormers' feed. Douglas is pushing Robinson who gets good drive off the hit, then stops once the Stormers tight side locks out. On the other side, Baxter with the more experienced Caldwell behind him is making the real ground. However there were a couple of occasions where the Stormers popped up on their own feed under pressure and Brown didn't do them for it - the pressure isn't coming on fast enough for him to make a decision as the ball is coming out already.

And Barnes is fucking awful up until Hangers comes on. Time to move him to 12 and Hangers to 10 and put Beale on the bench or at fullback. Carter looks like an almighty pussy who is afraid to get hurt and should be ejected. Put Sidey there. Shit, anyone. The whole backline moves laterally and transfers pressure to the poor mug who eventually gets the ball and tackle at the same time. If Hangers goes to 10 and we're forced to put Cart-horse in at 13, then Hangers can start cutting Beale out and have Tommy run straight onto it AT THE DEFENSE. Right now Tom ain't doing jack or shit.

Whoever said we look unfit is right. Hopefully we're building that as the season goes on, as well as some width and urgency. We're standing around waiting for the whistle to go when we see a knock-on instead of mucking in and smashing a few blokes when we get a free shot.

Hickey surely must see that what he tried last year, and with a better back line this year, is failing miserably. And in the biggest dick move of the year, he yanked Mitchell who despite missing his usual number of tackles was one of the few weapons we had on attack. WTF is up with Hickey's brain? You can't blame him for the Tahs only starting to show some good play when they're down by more than 14 points though.

And the Stormers defensive communication was excellent. All the sleight-of-hand (I use the term loosely, her honour) we tried was met with contact and very few half-gaps. Which just shows our attack isn't smart enough to create gaps or use them. Got to applaud the Stormers coaches and their team culture for that.

And, on refection, I'm really enjoying what Bob Skinstad brings to the commentary box, and the view in Cape Town is great:
 

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Blue

Andrew Slack (58)
Quality post NTA. And I am not just referrign to the ending.

The ref got the count horribly wrong at scrumtime though which didnlt help anyone.
 
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