The Israel Folau saga

[KOB1987]

Israel Folau the person can say and believe whatever he wants. Regardless of how stupid, childish, or antediluvian it is. No skin off my nose.

He just can't be an employee of RA while promoting that kind of belief.

Why anyone is bothering to report on it - and from within the space of his congregation - is the puzzling part.

We already know he's not terribly bright. We already know what he thinks.

I agree entirely. All he really seems to be preaching against in this instance is that children under 16 are being allowed to change their sex, and at this age they are too young to make such decisions. I agree with him and it's not an unpopular opinion, as you say it shouldn't even be being reported, let alone as leverage against him.

 

[Pfitzy]

May not be hate speech, but how often would "My belief system says you are going Hell" be followed by "but I reckon you're a top bloke / girl though"?
I agree, that given how literal he seems to be in his approach to stuff, that a handshake deal was not ideal. I do like the concept of a handshake being as good as the written word, but maybe those days are gone.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1 John 2:5&version=ESV

1 John 2:5 English Standard Version (ESV)

5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him:

And https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers 30:1-2&version=ESV

Numbers 30:1-2 English Standard Version (ESV)

Men and Vows

30 Moses spoke to the heads of the tribes of the people of Israel, saying, “This is what the Lord has commanded. 2 If a man vows a vow to the Lord, or swears an oath to bind himself by a pledge, he shall not break his word. He shall do according to all that proceeds out of his mouth.

Etc

 

[wamberal]

Which goes to show that it is possible to find just about anything in the bible.

But at the end of the day, I have always assumed that Christianity was about love, not hate. Inclusion, not exclusion. Serving others, not condemning them.

 

[Pfitzy]

Which goes to show that it is possible to find just about anything in the bible.

Exactly my point. The issue is you can't follow the Bible (or most holy books) to their letter (or even interpretation) because they're inherently contradictory in parts. So people take the bits they like and tend to focus on those.

But at the end of the day, I have always assumed that Christianity was about love, not hate. Inclusion, not exclusion. Serving others, not condemning them.

So, pretty much how most people try to get through the day. Just that they don't ascribe it to a higher being or aspiration to reward/fear of retribution in an afterlife.

 

[swingpass]

But at the end of the day, I have always assumed that Christianity was about love, not hate. Inclusion, not exclusion. Serving others, not condemning them.

christianity - yes; many christians - not so much, churches - no.

for what its worth and to cover all the bases in this thread, i am an atheist, wasn't offended by what he said, think RA could have handled this much better, believe he should have been sacked, this is an employment issue, neither his free speech nor his religious rights have been restricted - have i covered every aspect ?

 

[wamberal]

Have you ever been active in a Christian faith community, aka a "church"?

 

[swingpass]

yes, i am the child of rigdy didge, born again christians, baptised, etc. i will rephrase, not individual church congregations, better descriptor - the denominations/organised religions of all the abrahamovic faiths - Judaism, Islam and Christianity.

 

[Forcefield]

Maybe he wanted to promote Rugby no matter who was playing.

I don't think Folau dislikes homosexuals, he believes they are sinners and there is a massive difference.

Why wouldn't he promote a game that he plays? I dont think that the Bingham Cup is a recruiting ground for straight people to be converted to gay people so why not just enjoy the rugby on show?

It seems too many people want to believe that Folau hates homosexuals, I wonder if this makes it easier for those of no faith to be able to attack him rather than try to understand that he believes he is saving people through love.

I think you miss my point. He participated in the Bingham Cup without public comment. It would appear he put rugby ahead of religion back then. He now puts religion ahead of rugby. In my eyes at least, that is a change in belief system.

 

[Slim 293]

Happy to see the back of Folau..........

https://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/...n/news-story/f68a9999a605081749c4b2f1fb350f15

Sacked rugby union star Israel Folau targets homosexuals, transgender children in church sermon

 

[formerflanker]

In following the Israel Folau saga, it's important to look past newspaper headlines and read everything.
The Australian starts of with emotive statements about izzy's weekend sermon and Church F/B post, using these words:
“intensified his attack”
“targeted transgender children”
“escalated his attacks on homosexuals”
“latest attack on gender and sexuality”

However if you go on to read the whole article his full message becomes clearer - he is targeting those who "are allowing young kids in primary school to be able to have the permission to change their gender if they want by taking away the permission of the parents,"

He specifically mentions churches and governments who want transgenderism to be available to kids under 16.

His actual message is distorted by the opening paragraphs. As they say in the classics, RTWT.

 

[Slim 293]

Yeah, if you read it he spreads a lot of fear mongering nonsense regarding transgender kids and doubles down on homosexuality being the work of the devil.............

He can quite frankly, piss off.

 

[cyclopath]

But in all seriousness, what Reg said.
Not that it would have bothered most of our most prolific posters, but I was on a self-imposed absence for a while. This thread was exactly why.
Too many threads turn into redundant loop places where bytes go to die.
I challenge some to go back and read this thread and see how many posts could be distilled down to "ditto".
Posters who feel the need to argue the same point relentlessly, with basically the same post, need to step back and desist at times. If you have something new, or really different to add, then by all means do, but it gets like watching clay court tennis on Mogadon to others when it's more of the same.
As you were.

Just thought I'd put this back up here.
Might be worth a read.

 

[formerflanker]

Yeah, if you read it he spreads a lot of fear mongering nonsense regarding transgender kids and doubles down on homosexuality being the work of the devil.....

He can quite frankly, piss off.

And there we have it. The essence of the whole debate. The crux of the entire imbroglio. The best summary of the Israel Folau saga.

Anyone with a different opinion to that of RA will be forced to piss off.

 

[formerflanker]

Just thought I'd put this back up here.
Might be worth a read.

Having a forum to argue these issues is terrific - and rare.
For example, The Australian will not allow comments on its article about Izzy today.
I respect the right of a private blog to only allow posts which the owners believe are legal, and for standards to be set and enforced.
To those who believe the arguments are circuitous, I'd suggest not opening the thread or using the scroll function.

 

[cyclopath]

Having a forum to argue these issues is terrific - and rare.
For example, The Australian will not allow comments on its article about Izzy today.
I respect the right of a private blog to only allow posts which the owners believe are legal, and for standards to be set and enforced.
To those who believe the arguments are circuitous, I'd suggest not opening the thread or using the scroll function.

Thanks for the tip.

 

[Jiminy Cricket]

Which goes to show that it is possible to find just about anything in the bible.

But at the end of the day, I have always assumed that Christianity was about love, not hate. Inclusion, not exclusion. Serving others, not condemning them.

Christianity isn’t specifically definable as there are so many denominations interpreting a txt that is essentially a whole lot of stories cobbled together and reinterpreted by many authors over a huge expanse of time.

“In truth, there was only one Christian and he died on the cross.”― Friedrich Nietzsche


You have the Uniting church who are very inclusive and clearly chose to interpret the Bible more progressively rather than the fundamentalists conservative view. Should the teachings of Jesus hold more weight than a literal (it’s all the word of God) interpretation of the whole text?

Jonathan Haidt and JP among other social / personality psychologists are clear on temperament trait of openness being the major driver of a person holding progressive or conservative values and that society needs both to function & flourish.

Personally I feel that rather than persecuting individuals that have been taught or view homosexuality as a sin (NOTE THIS IS NOT COMPAIRABLE TO HATE – essentially all are sinners who don’t accept Jesus according to their doctrine) that people should be going after the church to make clear a consistent position on the issue however due to the multitude of denominations I don’t see how that’s an achievable task, though I don’t think it’s unreasonable to apply pressure to update the theology, it has been updated in the past.

 

[Finsbury Girl]

An interesting choice of first word by the anonymous "journo" in the Fox article.

Either they are completely ignorant or there is some sort of irony going on.

 

[Sully]

And there we have it. The essence of the whole debate. The crux of the entire imbroglio. The best summary of the Israel Folau saga.

Anyone with a different opinion to that of RA will be forced to piss off.

Bullshit!
Anyone who freely signs a contract with RA which includes the code of conduct and then breaks the code of conduct multiple time can piss off.

BTW he posted the sermon yesterday on social media.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

122 pages, thread locked and reopened 17 times, what a legendary epic. The War and Peace of GAGR. All over such a seemingly simple contract issue. Wish I could find enough Barbarella film stills to make a tl;dr pictorial photo essay dramatisationne of it

 

[Athilnaur]

Israel Folau the person can say and believe whatever he wants. Regardless of how stupid, childish, or antediluvian (edit) I think it is. No skin off my nose.

He just can't be an employee of RA while promoting that kind of belief.

Why anyone is bothering to report on it - and from within the space of his congregation - is the puzzling part.

We already know he's not terribly bright. We already know what he thinks.

You just summed up pretty much every bad progressive argument made in this thread. 'His views are different from mine. He's wrong and he must be stupid. He needs to be punished.'