The Israel Folau saga

[Quick Hands]

He is, or was, employed as a rugby player. Rugby players at the elite level are in a very privileged situation.

Could you imagine an All Black getting away with this? These guys understand their place in society. It is not to get up on a soap box and spray us with their uninformed and uneducated opinions.


If Izzy decides to preach in public, he needs to get some theological qualifications, and take up holy orders.

While I agree with you to the extent that I think that Israel is misguided in some of his theological positions, I think we need to be consistent if we are going to say that Wallabies can only make public comment on rugby matters and anything else is out of bounds.

So is it your position that Christian sportsmen and sportswomen can't use their profile in society to make a difference? Or to challenge the norms of society?

As it seems that sportsmen and women (including at least one current Wallaby) believes so. See if you can guess who this is (and I'll give you a clue, it isn't Israel Folau)

said he is determined to use his profile to make a difference in society.

"You look at some of the great sportspeople that we really admire, Muhammad Ali, John Carlos, Tommy Smith, Peter Norman, they all were challenging society and probably copped a fair bit for it, but in hindsight we celebrate them.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...-pocock-on-social-change-20190211-p50wya.html

 

[Slim 293]

The religious excuse is such a flimsy, bullshit argument, and doesn’t protect him from making public statements that marginalises anyone based on their sexuality, or race, gender, religion etc

Likewise, any player who were to publically state that Jews, blacks or women were all going to hell would be equally punished.............

And I honestly don’t believe that there would be as much objection to a similar punishment from some people in those examples, which seems to reinforce the need for RA to remain strong in this case.

 

[Derpus]

HR Managers have never had to turn a profit in their life therefore they are the most useless department in any company.

They are a department desperately searching for relevance.

*cough* compliance *cough*

 

[The Honey Badger]

After the cluster he made of the Commonwealth Games closing ceremony last year, it amazes me that any sporting body would touch him with a ten-foot barge poll.

How can someone get that position and not know who the Cronulla Sharks are?

Unbelievable

 

[Show-n-go]

The religious excuse is such a flimsy, bullshit argument, and doesn’t protect him from making public statements that marginalises anyone based on their sexuality, or race, gender, religion etc

You’re literally making a public statement right now marginalising someone based off their religion

Can I get your employers details so I can inform them please

 

[The Honey Badger]

You’re literally making a public statement right now marginalising someone based off their religion

Can I get your employers details so I can inform them please

@Show-n-go, Welcome to our forum.

Pretty solid first post.

 

[The Honey Badger]

While I agree with you to the extent that I think that Israel is misguided in some of his theological positions, I think we need to be consistent if we are going to say that Wallabies can only make public comment on rugby matters and anything else is out of bounds.

So is it your position that Christian sportsmen and sportswomen can't use their profile in society to make a difference? Or to challenge the norms of society?

As it seems that sportsmen and women (including at least one current Wallaby) believes so. See if you can guess who this is (and I'll give you a clue, it isn't Israel Folau)

said he is determined to use his profile to make a difference in society.

"You look at some of the great sportspeople that we really admire, Muhammad Ali, John Carlos, Tommy Smith, Peter Norman, they all were challenging society and probably copped a fair bit for it, but in hindsight we celebrate them.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...-pocock-on-social-change-20190211-p50wya.html

And to his credit, he has not said boo on this issue.

 

[Slim 293]

You’re literally making a public statement right now marginalising someone based off their religion

Can I get your employers details so I can inform them please

Er, I literally was not......... not even close....... literally, metaphorically, or whatever.

 

[Show-n-go]

@Show-n-go, Welcome to our forum.

Pretty solid first post.

Not new mate haha my old account was screwing up so just made a new one

 

[Show-n-go]

Er, I literally was not... not even close... literally, metaphorically, or whatever.

So what part weren’t you doing?

Making a public statement or marginalising someone for their beliefs

 

[Slim 293]

So what part weren’t you doing?

Making a public statement or marginalising someone for their beliefs

I literally wasn't doing the thing you accused me of with your solid first post............. literally.

 

[Forcefield]

If Rugby Australia wish to be some sort of moral compass for Australia, can I make one suggestion.

In modern corporate speak sponsors are now called 'partners'. Rugby Australia have a clothing partner, a banking partner, official beer partner and they also have a betting partner, 'bet365'.

https://www.rugbyau.com/about/partners/wallabies

Gambling companies prey on the weak and vulnerable and have a terrible impact on society. What Folau did was hurtful but is it as harmful to society as the promotion of gambling, is a interesting point of debate.

For the record 'bet365', Rugby Australia's official betting partner has been fined $2.5M by the Australian Competition and Consumer for misrepresentation, are Rugby Australia happy to continue this contractual relationship?

https://www.accc.gov.au/media-relea...-companies-for-misrepresenting-free-bet-offer

It's a great point. Where do we draw the line? Alcohol could be out. Maccas used to sponsor the Force (and probably other teams). Banks are just as crooked as betting agencies.

I don't think RA is trying to be a moral compass. They clearly stated an expectation of what is appropriate and what is inappropriate in social media use. There were plenty of healthy ways Folau could have put messages out. He chose not to. He rubbed himself out. Ignore what Folau said. The fact that he placed the team (Wallabies/Tahs whatever) in this position made his membership to the team untenable.

 

[Show-n-go]

I literally wasn't doing the thing you accused me of with your solid first post..... literally.

Say literally one more time, someone might take you more seriously for once lol

So you’re ok with Folau having his opinion but just not expressing it publicly?

 

[Slim 293]

Say literally one more time, someone might take you more seriously for once lol

So you’re ok with Folau having his opinion but just not expressing it publicly?

Are you you purposely being disingenuous, or are you going to ask me a legitimate question in response to what I actually posted?

 

[Show-n-go]

Are you you purposely being disingenuous, or are you going to ask me a legitimate question in response to what I actually posted?

You can either answer the question or not.....

Up to you.......

 

[Slim 293]

I already have.........

 

[The Honey Badger]

Not new mate haha my old account was screwing up so just made a new one

I guessed that. Didn't think you were new

 

[Dan54]

You’re literally making a public statement right now marginalising someone based off their religion

Can I get your employers details so I can inform them please

Um Show, lol not really a very good effort really, see noone knows who Slim really is (and probably not on a million a year to represent them, but I maybe wrong) so it does not effect his employer on what he posts, did you need to ask Izzy who his employer was? See if Izzy posted under a pseudonym none of this would of been a problem, oh but not as many would of known about it because he wouldn't have had such a high profile.
There are hundreds of high profile sportsmen/women in Australia and NZ that are christian/moslem etc who have twitter etc accounts, and yet most of them seem to find it sensible not to use their profile to put up posts concerning marginalised groups, whether it sexual orientation, their ethnicity or even their religions, but seem to find it better to express them in the correct places ie. church or homes etc.

 

[formerflanker]

An interesting analysis by Stephen Chavura in today's Australian, who says

Folau incited no violence and expressed no gross obscenity, notwithstanding the offence that many people would have taken.


The main point of the article is
Folau’s enemy is neither the government nor the people but corporate activism.
A key focus of the analysis is that You can live under the most liberal democratic state in the world, but if your employer can sack you for speaking your mind outside of your workplace or if a colleague can lodge a complaint because of a social media post, and your only alternative is another corporation with the same speech regulations, then your freedom of speech is an empty right. You are free to speak so long as nearly no one hears you.

 

[wamberal]

So if a Wallaby tweets "All Muslims will go to hell unless they repent" that would be okay with you? What about ditto for "all Jews"?