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The NBN (National Broadband Network)

Discussion in 'Politics' started by RugbyReg, Aug 25, 2010.

  1. Scotty David Codey (61)

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    Ah, I think we have a perfect example of where yours and mine theologies differ when it comes to politics.

    I believe government should be there to provide safety nets to protect its citizens should something go wrong (in this case it would be legislation regarding quality of work of the timber sleeper retaining wall by the builder or structural engineer). The safety net is put in place and the individual has a choice as to the way the would like to go with a particular decision. Of course the biggest role of government should be to collect taxes and use them to build infrastructure and protect the weakest members of our society.

    Where as, based on your story, you seem to believe that government should remove choices from its citizens so that they have less freedom, and that they then are forced into choices that the government thinks are the better options. There is a slight red tinge to you what you are espousing (and I don't mean Digby's jersey).
  2. Scotty David Codey (61)

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    I hope we are still going on GandGR in twenty years to compare Groucho's predictions with what is actually happening. I'd take a guess that it will be a little longer than twenty years before all that comes to fruition.
    Bowside likes this.
  3. Bowside Peter Johnson (47)

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    Crying red is the oldest trick in the book. Im not commie, just an optimist who has faith in government. :)

    And groucho even I think some of your suggestions are a little far fetched, but I guess you know more about this than me.
  4. Groucho Greg Davis (50)

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    Scotty, my company is working on those systems right now. :)

    And not in a whimsical way. We're building a remote automation solution for oil & gas projects that we'll be prototyping on the Nabucco pipeline, which will run from Azerbaijan through Turkey to Bulgaria and Romania, to Austria. Given sufficient bandwidth, you'd be able to operate the entire pipeline from a home computer.

    There are hundreds of companies working on similar projects. Many, like ours, are for industrial applications, but consumer applications will follow immediately behind. And the crucial point is not the applications themselves (who in their right mind would want to run a pipeline or an oil refinery from home) but the technology they produce, which will spin off in countless ways, as fast as the Sonys and Microsofts and the Mitsubishis of the world can dream them up.
    boyo likes this.
  5. The_Brown_Hornet Michael Lynagh (62)

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    I've had long experience with real-time offshore production and drilling systems that can be controlled over a satellite connection, so the technology is there already. The trick is where the application runs and how you collect and process the data.

    I'll also say that Groucho's earlier scenarios (on the last page) are mostly spot-on. The network project I'm working on at my present employer is geared around delivering almost exactly these kinds of things (well maybe not network connected fridges).
  6. Groucho Greg Davis (50)

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    The fridges were an embellishment, hornet. I wanted to hit people where they spend the most time, ;)
  7. I like to watch Simon Poidevin (60)

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    You sound like a spin doctor for Joolia.
    Tell me one way farmers need this technology?
    Teachers need it why?
    We need it now so we can use technology that has yet to be invented??
    Even if the aove points were valid, there might be an argument for subsidising PARTS of Rural Australia.
    There is no justification for rolling it out in the cities.If it is going to be the new gateway to the world, then the current providers will install it & end users will suscribe. Why is there need for government intervention?
    This is one of the largest projects that the federal government has initiated in history. The information justifying the project, the rationale,implementation,costings and expected usage, have not been subject to enough scrutiny or debate.
    What is the current government's track record in rolling out big projects?
    The debacle in Tasmania highlights why this should not proceed in it's current format
  8. The_Brown_Hornet Michael Lynagh (62)

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    I have seen internet connected drinks vending machines, however :)
  9. Richo John Thornett (49)

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    You might do better thinking of broadband as business roadways. Just as two-lane highways facilitate trade and grow business at both ends, so does a better, faster broadband network. Just as the only reasonable way to build highways is through government (or at least significant ownership in a PPP), so to the only reasonable way to build a comprehensive national broadband network is through government. Personally, I think there are lots of things that private enterprise does well but that infrastructure is, generally speaking, not one of them because it's fundamentally a public good, not a private one.

    And just to highlight one practical example, schools in rural areas will have access to all sorts of online learning resources, broadening education opportunities for kids in rural areas and enabling a much wider array of learning choices.
    boyo likes this.
  10. Scotty David Codey (61)

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    I don't doubt that their will be products out there that require the fast internet, and I know (from what you have said previously) that you are working on these products yourself. However, because you are working in this industry you are likely to be more optimistic as to the timing of the implementation (at least wide scale) of these items. I'm just suggesting that a lot of what of you predicted is more likely to be 30 years away than 20 as some of these things are almost generational changes and will take a while to implement. We shall see though.
  11. Groucho Greg Davis (50)

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    Indeed, technologists are optimists, and people with investments in optimism, even more so.

    I think the key to the pace of change will be the rate at which industrial applications are converted into consumer products.
    boyo likes this.
  12. Groucho Greg Davis (50)

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    One of the more interesting Web 4.0 apps I've seen was from a team I met at a conference last year. It is a distributed car telemetry system: your car has wireless, and when you are within range of a connection, and have the system turned on, the manufacturer can monitor the state of your vehicle using real-time telemetry. When you are on your home network, it can even perform basic services and deliver cpu upgrades. The system can negotiate service slots for more complex work, and dealers can have similarly-equipped mobile units that mechanics drive to where you have your car. Pretty neat stuff, although subject to nanny state abuse if governments ever gets their hands on it.
    boyo likes this.
  13. The_Brown_Hornet Michael Lynagh (62)

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    So sort of like the telemetry systems we see in F1 racing, but consumer-grade. Noice.
  14. Bowside Peter Johnson (47)

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    I was just about to mention how much that sounds like F1, but you beat me to it.

    Its always cool to see f1 tech turn up in road cars. Cant wait for KERS.
  15. Groucho Greg Davis (50)

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    The beauty of the version I saw is that it will be entirely vehicle-agnostic, meaning it can be built into car CPUs and ECUs before they are modified for individual cars. The application runs entirely on the manufacturer's server, and the car CPU runs the app remotely over the Internet. Apparently, this is the technology model that is used in unmanned military aircraft, essentially plug-and-play remote control.
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  16. Scotty David Codey (61)

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    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...n-to-keep-phones/story-fn59niix-1225937394605

    If I understand this correctly, the government is introducing legislation to essentially make them exempt from the normal tests of the ACCC.

    Not sure about anyone else, but I have a real issue with this.
  17. Groucho Greg Davis (50)

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  18. waratahjesus Greg Davis (50)

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    sorry if this has been answered, but like nsw labour with the private roads, once built and a toll in place they closed public roads to get more people onto the private ones so the investors could make there money back.

    if i dont need super dooper speed broad band for my internet use and i pay 28 dollars a month now, will i be forced to change to the new system to generate the income needed for the bussiness model to work?

    will the old system by redused to force people away from it to the new one?
  19. Scotty David Codey (61)

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    True, but the changing of laws to get around ACCC requirements (as the case may be) is the start of a slippery slope. It is basically saying that the government can do whatever they want, and force us into whatever they think is best for us.
  20. Scotty David Codey (61)

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    No one has actually made this direct link yet, however essentially the answer is yes. If you want to have access to broadband through a fixed line service, you will have to go with the new network, at likely a higher costs, as the other networks are being decommissioned.

    This is a clear issue with the government's business case for the NBN. If they truly believed that it would be very successful and is worth this extravagant spend, then they wouldn't have required the other fixed line systems to be decommissioned. The government is running what is equivalent to dictatorship on this one, by creating a monopoly and forcing it on us, when they didn't need to.

    I can't believe that people can be comfortable with this.

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