The Wallabies Thread

[dru]

So using tribalism as basis for a domestic comp leads to demoting the current premier comps and also wont take the best talent available into the new comp - taking the talent from the best teams doesn't relate to the same thing as the best talent available from the comp.

But the NRC (so far) fail in relation to tribalism.

Bird in the hand?

 

[William88]

As an outsider looking in, the Shute Shield has managed to the run Paramatta and Penrith into the ground all on their own. Between the two teams they've managed only 2 wins from 24 games and a points differential of over -800 for 2017.

I think they have tried to develop these clubs as best they can over the pre season. It has to be a long term focus.

 

[amirite]

So using tribalism as basis for a domestic comp leads to demoting the current premier comps and also wont take the best talent available into the new comp - taking the talent from the best teams doesn't relate to the same thing as the best talent available from the comp.

But the NRC (so far) fail in relation to tribalism.

Bird in the hand?

The NRC could do tribalism and community engagement better, though I think it's getting there with little things like getting rid of the Stars and rebranding the Sydney Rays, as well as bringing the Rising branding into alignment with the Rebels.

However, it's IMPORTANT to understand that the NRC is first and foremost a development and talent ID platform. Everything else is gravy.

 

[daz]

However, it's IMPORTANT to understand that the NRC is first and foremost a development and talent ID platform. Everything else is gravy.

I have to admit, as a sports fan, that this mindset is hardly likely to get my juices flowing.

I don't think too many people go to these games to spot the next Izzy, and connect the dots on how his pathway to Wallaby captain is going to map out.

I mean, its fun to do that, and you hope to see one or two rough diamonds pulled out of obscurity, but in all honesty:

I go to the Rising games to a) support my NRC team and b) to see the Rising win.

Everything else is someone else's gravy.

 

[dru]

The NRC could do tribalism and community engagement better, though I think it's getting there with little things like getting rid of the Stars and rebranding the Sydney Rays, as well as bringing the Rising branding into alignment with the Rebels.

However, it's IMPORTANT to understand that the NRC is first and foremost a development and talent ID platform. Everything else is gravy.

It seems to me that, good intentions aside, the ARU is hell bent on killing our Pro Rugby via Soup. I am definitely on the side of the fence that suggests a domestic competition is utterly crucial.

Not gravy, but imperative for the game's survival. I don't have a problem with the Shute Shield advocates stating that the NRC is rubbish and something else is needed. I'd just like to hear what "something else" is.

So far crickets.

And a predicted escalation in the diaspora of Aus rugby talent on the back of reducing local pro opportunity by 20%. Obvious innit?

 

[fatprop]

It would make sense, but would be difficult to divide up fairly.

Not concerned with "fairness" (I am an equal opportunity, not an equal outcome kind of guy) It would allow each franchise to run larger\wider squads - looking at fringe players (and coaches)

 

[TOCC]

I think any future decisions on the format or structure of the NRC need to be done of a grounds of commercial feasibility, and not a design of artificial parameters set by the Super Rugby clubs in that state.

QLD and NSW club rugby comps will organically produce more players to a standandard closer to that of the NRC then ACT, WA or Victoria. Additionally the size of the rugby union fan base in QLD and NSW in addition to the relevant combined GDP output of that fan base will dictate that Sydney and Brisbane have greater commercial support to fund mutltipile NRC teams compared to the other Super Rugby states.

A commercially successful competiton with a reasonable base and representation across Australia will naturally develop players and coaches without forcing it.

 

[Quick Hands]

The obvious problem with this is that the more successful this competition is, the more damage it does to the Shute Shield and other club competitions around Australia.

Which is why I noted that the Rays model is my preferred option.

 

[Quick Hands]

I think any future decisions on the format or structure of the NRC need to be done of a grounds of commercial feasibility, and not a design of artificial parameters set by the Super Rugby clubs in that state.

QLD and NSW club rugby comps will organically produce more players to a standandard closer to that of the NRC then ACT, WA or Victoria. Additionally the size of the rugby union fan base in QLD and NSW in addition to the relevant combined GDP output of that fan base will dictate that Sydney and Brisbane have greater commercial support to fund mutltipile NRC teams compared to the other Super Rugby states.

A commercially successful competiton with a reasonable base and representation across Australia will naturally develop players and coaches without forcing it.

What do you think you are doing applying such practicality, common sense and rational analysis.

 

[Quick Hands]

It seems to me that, good intentions aside, the ARU is hell bent on killing our Pro Rugby via Soup. I am definitely on the side of the fence that suggests a domestic competition is utterly crucial.

Not gravy, but imperative for the game's survival. I don't have a problem with the Shute Shield advocates stating that the NRC is rubbish and something else is needed. I'd just like to hear what "something else" is.

So far crickets.

And a predicted escalation in the diaspora of Aus rugby talent on the back of reducing local pro opportunity by 20%. Obvious innit?

Because there is no "something else". If the NRC isn't what a national club competition looks like, then I don't know what it would look like.

(Not saying that improvements can't be made)

 

[Quick Hands]

The NRC could do tribalism and community engagement better, though I think it's getting there with little things like getting rid of the Stars and rebranding the Sydney Rays, as well as bringing the Rising branding into alignment with the Rebels.

However, it's IMPORTANT to understand that the NRC is first and foremost a development and talent ID platform. Everything else is gravy.

I'm not sure if that is a way to appeal to the masses though. I'm not even sure if it is primarily that either.

For example, if it is primarily a development platform for Super rugby, then why is it played under different laws?

 

[Quick Hands]

What you've said is fair, but I honesty think the current representative model that has the appearance of a "fair go to players of all clubs" (even if one can argue it's not completely fair) is superior to a model that really benefits the "haves". I would say it's mostly fair and good players can get a go regardless of where they're playing.

.

Which is what I said in my last paragraph.

 

[amirite]

Which is what I said in my last paragraph.

Yes, and I further address why I don't think a Champions League / FA Cup type tournament you mentioned having interest in made sense to me.

 

[Quick Hands]

Yes, and I further address why I don't think a Champions League / FA Cup type tournament you mentioned having interest in made sense to me.

If you read my post carefully, you will see that I wasn't advocating anything. Dru asked what a club-based alternative to the NRC might look like and I offered in explanation something which I had suggested before the NRC was instituted. I quite deliberately in no way said that I had any interest in this occurring. In fact I explicitly said that I preferred the Rays model (which is part of the current NRC). I'm clearly on the record on a number of threads as supporting the NRC concept as a vehicle towards a national club competition. Supplying what an alternative might look like in no way changes this, which I had thought that I had made quite clear in the last paragraph of my post. It seems that I was not clear enough for some.

 

[fatprop]

Really good insight from Hoiles on the Wobs fitness issues in this weeks Fox rugby podcast, well worth a listen​

​

Covers issues between the super sides and wobs​

​

Hoiles provided insight in the fitness requirements at the tahs from Foley to Cheika, under Foley in pre season they were doing about 17km a week, under Cheika it was over 30​

​

The Wobs S&C get the GPS details of the players, but the Super S&C are often more concerned with freshening up units than raising their levels.​

​

The Brumbies was the only side doing OK, the other sides have agreed to let the Wobs S&C smash the Wobs players over the next few weeks as they have no semis to plan for​

 

[dru]

If you read my post carefully, you will see that I wasn't advocating anything. Dru asked what a club-based alternative to the NRC might look like and I offered in explanation something which I had suggested before the NRC was instituted. I quite deliberately in no way said that I had any interest in this occurring. In fact I explicitly said that I preferred the Rays model (which is part of the current NRC). I'm clearly on the record on a number of threads as supporting the NRC concept as a vehicle towards a national club competition. Supplying what an alternative might look like in no way changes this, which I had thought that I had made quite clear in the last paragraph of my post. It seems that I was not clear enough for some.

Yep, strawman at it's best.

BTW, I'd still like to hear from the SRU afficianados what an alternate, harnessing tribalism, specifically looks like. Like you, I'm minded to the current NRC but I'd like to know what the SRU wants. While some from the world of Shute Shield have picked up the NRC, there does seem to be bitterness and an apparent concern about the SS rightful place.

Right now I'm behind the SRU as the alternative (NSWRU and ARU) is appalling. But I dont yet know what I'm getting myself into.

 

[William88]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...n-can-australian-rugby-reclaim-the-glory-days

 

[wamberal]

An interesting factoid in the Sydney Morning Hurled: of the circa 900 Wallabies to date, 20% of them played for Randwick or Sydney University.

 

[Joe Blow]

An interesting factoid in the Sydney Morning Hurled: of the circa 900 Wallabies to date, 20% of them played for Randwick or Sydney University.

How many of the current squad play(ed) at either of those clubs?

 

[TOCC]

An interesting factoid in the Sydney Morning Hurled: of the circa 900 Wallabies to date, 20% of them played for Randwick or Sydney University.

That factoid pretty much sums up everything which is wrong with Australian rugby